DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 9th, 2023 at 6:33:34 PM permalink
Scott / Vital Vegas tweeted about a new game at DTG:

Quote:

First look at a new roulette variation, Birthday Bet. Only @Downtown_Grand at the moment. Interview with the inventor, Ryan Chinn, on the podcast.

https://twitter.com/vitalvegas/status/1667000853822324736?s=46&t=GGszWiD6DLadfPNF5gTL-A

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AxelWolf
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June 9th, 2023 at 7:46:24 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Scott / Vital Vegas tweeted about a new game at DTG:

Quote:

First look at a new roulette variation, Birthday Bet. Only @Downtown_Grand at the moment. Interview with the inventor, Ryan Chinn, on the podcast.

https://twitter.com/vitalvegas/status/1667000853822324736?s=46&t=GGszWiD6DLadfPNF5gTL-A


link to original post

From a non-AP perspective I think this is a good idea, there are a ton of people into astrology, especially females, even if they don't actually believe in all the astrology mumbo jumbo they still enjoy reading horoscopes, being proud of their sign, and having fun with it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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June 9th, 2023 at 9:01:22 PM permalink
I get an ER of 108 / 133, which is a house edge of about 18.8%

This looks like something that could be combined with Chinese Horoscope Roulette, where each sign is assigned three consecutive spots on the wheel. Of course, that would require a much larger layout, but I don't see people associating their zodiacal signs with those particular sets of numbers.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 10th, 2023 at 3:39:58 AM permalink
I don't like the name, it kinda sounds cheesy to me. They need zodiac chips.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
TinMan
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June 10th, 2023 at 5:32:46 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I get an ER of 108 / 133, which is a house edge of about 18.8%



Ouch! I may have done the math wrong, but 18.8% is like playing on a wheel with 8 zeroes.
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 10th, 2023 at 5:54:43 AM permalink
Not that I doubt his math, I知 not sure how Don came up with 108/133 and I知 too lazy to try to figure it out.

But even simple reasoning, such as what I put in my own Twitter post, makes you realize the edge is considerably larger than Roulette痴 standard edge of 5.26%.

Quote: My Twitter reply

Clever concept. Terrible payout.

You could easily bet $1 on any street. It pays $11. Keep the same $6 this bet would pay and press the other $5. Then, each successive hit would pay $66 rather than $50.

Want a better, fun side bet?

Poker for Roulette.

http://www.davemillergaming.com/pfr/index.html

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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June 10th, 2023 at 7:18:45 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Not that I doubt his math, I知 not sure how Don came up with 108/133 and I知 too lazy to try to figure it out.

But even simple reasoning, such as what I put in my own Twitter post, makes you realize the edge is considerably larger than Roulette痴 standard edge of 5.26%.
link to original post


Yes, it is, because that first win pays 6-1 instead of 11-1. If the first win pays anything less than 155/21 to 1 (about 7 3/8-1), then the edge > the standard edge.

I'm pretty sure my math is correct; it matches in simulation.


1 win (pays 6): 3/38 x 35/38
2 wins (pays 56): (3/38)^2 x 35/38
3 wins (pays 106): (3/38)^3 x 35/38
and so on

The total ER is:
3/38 x 35/38 x (6 + 3/38 x 56 + (3/38)^2 x 106 + (3/38)^3 x 156 + ...)
= 3/38 x 35/38 x (6 + (3/38 x 6 + 3/38 x 50) + ((3/38)^2 x 6 + (3/38)^2 x 100) + ((3/38)^3 x 6 + (3/38)^3 x 150) + ...)
= 3/38 x 35/38 x (6 + (3/38 x 6 + (3/38)^2 x 6 + (3/38)^3 x 6 + ...) + (3/38 x 50 + (3/38)^2 x 100 + (3/38)^3 x 150 + ...))
= 3/38 x 35/38 x 6 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...) + 3/38 x 35/38 x 3/38 x 50 x (1 + 2 x 3/38 + 3 x (3/38)^2 + ...)
= 3/38 x 35/38 x 6 x (1 / (1 - 3/38)) + 3/38 x 35/38 x 3/38 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)^2
= 3/38 x 6 + 315 x 50 / 38^3 x 38^2 / 35^2
= 9/19 + 315 x 50 / (38 x 35^2)
= 108/133

Ace2
Ace2
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June 10th, 2023 at 10:16:12 AM permalink
x = 3/38 * (6 + y)
y = (1 / (1 - 3/38) - 1 )* 50

Solve for x, which is 108/133

Geometric series
Last edited by: Ace2 on Jun 10, 2023
It痴 all about making that GTA
Ace2
Ace2
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June 10th, 2023 at 10:22:50 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Not that I doubt his math, I知 not sure how Don came up with 108/133 and I知 too lazy to try to figure it out.

But even simple reasoning, such as what I put in my own Twitter post, makes you realize the edge is considerably larger than Roulette痴 standard edge of 5.26%.

Side bets are sucker bets about 99% of the time. In blackjack, for example, there are side bets with edges well over 20%. And blackjack (played properly) has an edge under 1%
It痴 all about making that GTA
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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June 13th, 2023 at 4:05:00 PM permalink
Here's a way to make it interesting, while keeping the HA above the normal for roulette:
The first hit pays 7
Subsequent successive hits pay 50, 100, 200, 400, and so on
Note these are combined; five hits in a row pays a total of 7 + 50 + 100 + 200 + 400 = 757 (minus the 1 you lose on the sixth spin).
The HA is 7.73%; if the first hit pays 6, it's 15.625%


If the payouts are N, 50, 100, 200, 400, ...:

ER = 35/38 x 3/38 x N
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x (N + 50)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^3 x (N + 50 + 100)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^4 x (N + 50 + 100 + 200)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^5 x (N + 50 + 100 + 200 + 400)
+ ...

= 35/38 x 3/38 x N x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^3 x 2 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^4 x 2^2 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^5 x 2^3 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ ...

= 3 N / 38
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2 x 3/38 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2^2 x (3/38)^2 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2^3 x (3/38)^3 x (1 + 3/38 + (3/38)^2 + ...)
+ ...

= 3 N / 38
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 38/35
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2 x 3/38 x 38/35
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2^2 x (3/38)^2 x 38/35
+ 35/38 x (3/38)^2 x 50 x 2^3 x (3/38)^3 x 38/35
+ ...

= 3 N / 38 + (3/38)^2 x 50 x (1 + 3/19 + (3/19)^2 + ...)
= (3 N x 32 + 450) / (38 x 32)
= (48 N + 225) / 608

HE = 1 - (48 N + 225) / 608 = (383 - 48 N) / 608
This is 15.625% for N = 6 and 7.73% for N = 7


Meanwhile, I had another idea - something similar to the Small/Tall/All bet in craps, where you would win if all 12 signs were hit before any green number - but the probability of winning isn't as low as I expected (it's only slightly worse than 1/6), and the expected number of spins needed for a win (an example of the "coupon collector's problem") doesn't justify the low payout.
Last edited by: ThatDonGuy on Jun 13, 2023
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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June 14th, 2023 at 4:13:52 PM permalink
Here are some HE numbers for the "progressive" version
The rows indicate what the first hit pays, and the columns indicate what the second hit pays; each hit after the second pays double what the previous one paid (so the 6 row and 50 column is for 6, 50, 100, 200, 400, and so on)
Blanks indicate a negative HE (i.e. an AP)

There are three tables - single-zero, double-zero, and triple-zero wheels
0202530354045505560657075
543.9205790640.0358589536.1511388532.2664187528.3816986524.4969785520.6122584516.7275383512.842818258.9580981475.0733780461.188657945
635.8124709531.9277508528.0430307524.1583106420.2735905416.3888704412.504150348.6194302414.734710140.849990039
727.7043628423.8196427419.9349226416.0502025412.165482448.2807623354.3960422340.511322133
819.5962547315.7115346311.826814537.9420944294.0573743280.172654227
911.488146627.6034265223.718706421
103.380038515


0, 0020253035404550556065707580
545.7236842142.0230263238.3223684234.6217105330.9210526327.2203947423.5197368419.8190789516.1184210512.417763168.7171052635.0164473681.315789474
637.8289473734.1282894730.4276315826.7269736823.0263157919.3256578915.62511.924342118.2236842114.5230263160.822368421
729.9342105326.2335526322.5328947418.8322368415.1315789511.430921057.7302631584.0296052630.328947368
822.0394736818.3388157914.6381578910.93757.2368421053.536184211
914.1447368410.444078956.7434210533.042763158
106.252.549342105


0, 00, 0002025303540455055606570758085
547.5524475544.0559440640.5594405637.0629370633.5664335730.0699300726.5734265723.0769230819.5804195816.0839160812.587412599.0909090915.5944055942.097902098
639.8601398636.3636363632.8671328729.3706293725.8741258722.3776223818.8811188815.3846153811.888111898.3916083924.8951048951.398601399
732.1678321728.6713286725.1748251721.6783216818.1818181814.6853146911.188811197.6923076924.1958041960.699300699
824.4755244820.9790209817.4825174813.9860139910.489510496.9930069933.4965034970
916.7832167813.286713299.790209796.2937062942.797202797
109.0909090915.5944055942.097902098
111.398601399
heatmap
heatmap
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June 14th, 2023 at 4:15:39 PM permalink
don i know what it takes to make these tables you put too much time and energy into them for free thank you... the green highlight is what makes these tables they are beautiful...

and the fact that you have to put triple zero wheels into this is crazy you know we live in a greedy future if we have regulated triple zero wheels
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
June 14th, 2023 at 10:59:31 PM permalink
It's easier/better to place $1 on the row, when you win $11 take $6 and press $5 (to get $6 bet). As $6 pays out $66 you can continue this idea
$1 (pays 11) take $6
$6 (pays 66) take $50
$22 (pays 242) take $200
$64 (pays $704) take $500
$268 (pays $2948) ....

or $1 (11) $7 > $5 (55) $50 > $10 ($110) $100 > $20 ($220) $200 > $40 ($440) etc.

btw sometime ago there was a wheel which had the 12 signs of the zodiac, but there were segments around the wheel ignoring 0. There was also one with 12 famous racehorses which I took this picture (in 2006).
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
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June 15th, 2023 at 7:32:26 AM permalink
That wheel is particularly lovely.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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June 15th, 2023 at 4:42:37 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

btw sometime ago there was a wheel which had the 12 signs of the zodiac, but there were segments around the wheel ignoring 0.


I mentioned this in my first post in this thread, but it was with the Chinese signs instead of the Western ones (this is what "Chinese Horoscope Roulette" is). I saw it in Australia back in 2011.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 29th, 2023 at 3:40:02 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Scott / Vital Vegas tweeted about a new game at DTG:

Quote:

First look at a new roulette variation, Birthday Bet. Only @Downtown_Grand at the moment. Interview with the inventor, Ryan Chinn, on the podcast.

https://twitter.com/vitalvegas/status/1667000853822324736?s=46&t=GGszWiD6DLadfPNF5gTL-A

I finally heard that podcast episode. It dropped on 8/21. I actually forgot I started this thread about it. A google search brought me here. 🤪

Anyway, it痴 in the Vital Vegas podcast, episode 159, which is an hour and a half long. The interview starts about an hour in.

I stayed at DTG 7/29-7/31. I don稚 remember seeing it.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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