Table games dealt face up

What if in an effort to mitigate germs and microbes, casinos start dealing all card games face up? In other words, no more players touching cards. Here is some information about the odds in some poker variants assuming knowledge of all player cards.

Caribbean Stud Poker

According to Advanced Advantage Play (Exhibit CAA) by James Grosjean*, with seven players and optimal strategy, the player advantage is 2.374%. Grosjean provides a non-optimal strategy resulting in a 1.34% player advantage.

Let it Ride

According to Grosjean, at a full table with optimal strategy and knowledge of the burn card, the house still maintains a 2.25% edge.

Three Card Poker

In the table titled Futility of Viewing Neighbors' Cards on page 333, Grosjean says the house edge with 21 known player cards is 2.32%.

Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em

Grosjean does not address knowledge of other players' cards. However, I have seen digital table games where every player card dealt was easily seen. The fact that such games have not been killed by advantage players suggests to me it isn't a viable advantage play. Then again, maybe it's just a well kept secret.

Mississippi Stud

According to Advanced Advantage Play by Eliot Jacobson, with optimal strategy on a six-player face-up game, the player advantage is 2.29%. Discount Gambling gives a practical strategy that results in a player advantage of 0.5% in a six-player game.

High Card Flush

According to Stephen How of Discount Gambling, a full table of seven players, with optimal strategy of all player cards, would have a 7.3% player advantage. In that page, How provides a simple strategy, resulting in a 3.1% player advantage.

* Advanced Advantage Play (Exhibit CAA). Grosjean has basic strategy cards available at Shop LVA.

Any other games anyone is curious about?

The question for the poll is will you be ready if this happens?

Quote: Wizard

High Card Flush

According to Stephen How of Discount Gambling, a full table of seven players, with optimal strategy of all player cards, would have a 7.3% player advantage. In that page, How provides a simple strategy, resulting in a 3.1% player advantage.

So are you saying a 'team' could play all 7 hands, and if able to communicate effectively, could at least theoretically have a 7.3% player advantage on each hand?
So say $50 bet, 30 hands per hour. Over $100 an hour EV each?
Not saying the illegal communication would be easy, but certainly possible.....

Quote: Wizard

What if in an effort to mitigate germs and microbes, casinos start dealing all card games face up? In other words, no more players touching cards. Here is some information about the odds in some poker variants assuming knowledge of all player cards.

Any other games anyone is curious about?

The question for the poll is will you be ready if this happens?

Wizard,
This has already happened, and it is doing very well.

Casino Hold'em® Dealt Face-up (aka Casino Hold'em® Open™).

Casino Hold'em® at Wizard of Odds: CasinoHoldemWoO.com
The game also goes by the name Casino Hold'em® Open™. Under this name, the rules are the same except all Players hole cards are dealt Face-up. In normal Casino Hold'em® they are dealt face down.

3-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™
* FREE-Play 3-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ HTML Power by Play'n GO on Mobile or PC: 3HandCasinoHoldem.com

Live-Dealer 2-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ 2HandCasinoHoldem.com
* FREE Live-Dealer 2-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ Power by EvolutionGaming. LiveCasinoHoldem.com
* VIDEO: Evolution-Gaming 2 Hand Casino Hold'em® Review. https://bit.ly/2JWwsRu
* Read FULL Review. http://bit.ly/2DAKZzf

P.S. I will show the House-Edge for Casino Hold'em® Open™ (From 2 to 7 Hands) here. If no one gets it by the end of next week (18/Apr).

Evolution-Gaming 2 Hand Casino Hold'em® Review. https://bit.ly/2JWwsRu

Quote: SOOPOO

So are you saying a 'team' could play all 7 hands, and if able to communicate effectively, could at least theoretically have a 7.3% player advantage on each hand?

Yes.

Quote: Wizard

...The fact that such games have not been killed by advantage players suggests to me it isn't a viable advantage play. Then again, maybe it's just a well kept secret.

Not anymore, LOL.

Quote: Poll

That would be cheating (RIP Dan Lubin)

I don't think Dan would object or think it cheating. Did Dan think card counting is cheating? I can't remember, but I think not. Not in the spirit of the game, but not cheating.

On a side note, I can't believe it's been 3 years. RIP Dan.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I don't think Dan would object or think it cheating. Did Dan think card counting is cheating? I can't remember, but I think not. Not in the spirit of the game, but not cheating.

He argued here it was cheating many times, not in a legal sense, but in a moral sense.

Quote:

On a side note, I can't believe it's been 3 years. RIP Dan.

Indeed.

Was it not in Barona that all cards in Mississippi Stud were face up except dealer cards? What happened there?

Quote: DeMango

Was it not in Barona that all cards in Mississippi Stud were face up except dealer cards? What happened there?

MS Stud with all cards face up is a slight player advantage with full table collusion. Courtesy of Stephen How.

https://discountgambling.net/mississippi-stud-ev-barona/

I wonder how many casinos have run the numbers to figure out which costs them more money:

1) Dealing everything face up so players can collude.

2) Letting people touch the cards but destroying them after each hand as per midi- and big table Baccarat.

Three Card Poker

Grosjean doesn't write about playing about playing with knowledge of other players' cards only, but does say the player advantage with knowledge of just your own cards and dealer card is 3.48%. With knowledge of one dealer card and 21 player cards (yours and six other players), the player advantage increases by 0.60% to 4.08%. Thus would suggest knowledge of just 21 player cards, but no dealer cards, lowers the house edge from 3.37% to 2.77%.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

SUBCHAPTER 20. THREE-CARD POKER 13:69F-20.1

A casino licensee may, in its discretion, permit a player to place wagers at two or three betting positions during a round of play provided that all of the betting positions are adjacent to each other.

Source: https://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/docs/Regulations/CHAPTER69.pdf
What Grosjean says about knowledge of just 9 player cards, but no dealer cards, lowers the house edge from 3.37% to ??? %.

I've only seen it (and lost!) in Monte Carlo, but Trente et Quarante is dealt face up. Nice House Edge too 1.10%.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/trente-et-quarante/

Quote: DeMango

Was it not in Barona that all cards in Mississippi Stud were face up except dealer cards? What happened there?

Yes. I think I'm allowed to say that Stephen How of Discount Gambling played that table for hundreds of hours for red chips. They knew what he was doing and just put up with it for a long time. However, they eventually backed him off of it. As far as I know, they still deal it face up.

Quote: VladAlex1

What Grosjean says about knowledge of just 9 player cards, but no dealer cards, lowers the house edge from 3.37% to ??? %.

I didn't notice his table titled Futility of Viewing Neighbors' Cards. Grosjean says the house edge with 21 known player cards is 2.32%.

So OK, you can't touch the cards.

How about those chips - whether it's "real" ones or the bank chips unique to a particular session or tournament in poker? Those chips get spread out among the other players or moved from table to table. So I trust everyone at the table where I am sitting, but what about Typhoid Tom who sits down next to me, direct from Who-Knows-Where.

My curiosity about the reopening of the casinos is the same for every place that requires or allows the exchange of real cash. Sure, you can limit your exposure by using plastic to pay for things, and use a point-ed stick to depress the keys on a keypad. But those "touch-screens" require, that's right, a "touch."

Regardless of the change in HE or anything else about any game, non-socially-distant touching cannot be avoided.

Used to be that you washed your hands AFTER going to the bathroom. Not any more. I KNOW where Mr. Binky has been, but not any of those chips.

Quote: MrCasinoGames

Wizard,
This has already happened, and it is doing very well.

Casino Hold'em® Dealt Face-up (aka Casino Hold'em® Open™).

Casino Hold'em® at Wizard of Odds: CasinoHoldemWoO.com
The game also goes by the name Casino Hold'em® Open™. Under this name, the rules are the same except all Players hole cards are dealt Face-up. In normal Casino Hold'em® they are dealt face down.

3-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™
* FREE-Play 3-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ HTML Power by Play'n GO on Mobile or PC: 3HandCasinoHoldem.com

Live-Dealer 2-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ 2HandCasinoHoldem.com
* FREE Live-Dealer 2-Hand Casino Hold'em® Open™ Power by EvolutionGaming. LiveCasinoHoldem.com
* VIDEO: Evolution-Gaming 2 Hand Casino Hold'em® Review. https://bit.ly/2JWwsRu
* Read FULL Review. http://bit.ly/2DAKZzf

P.S. I will show the House-Edge for Casino Hold'em® Open™ (From 2 to 7 Hands) here. If no one gets it by the end of next week (18/Apr).

Evolution-Gaming 2 Hand Casino Hold'em® Review. https://bit.ly/2JWwsRu

For any one that are interested.

Casino Hold'em® Open™ House-Edge From 2 to 7 Hands. Math-Report by Stephen How Consulting ©2014: https://bit.ly/2VjFK0j

FREE-Play 3-Hands Casino Hold'em® Open™ HTML on Mobile or PC: 3HandCasinoHoldem.com

P.S. Any Comment on Casino Hold'em® Open™ are welcome.

The guys over at CEG/Casino Quest did a YouTube video of Face Up Blackjack. It was kind of funny being forced to hit a 19 against a dealer 20.

Quote: SkittleCar1

The guys over at CEG/Casino Quest did a YouTube video of Face Up Blackjack. It was kind of funny being forced to hit a 19 against a dealer 20.

Nothing compared to hitting a 19 in (theoretically!) face down blackjack. In face up it gets you no unwanted attention....