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hitthat16
hitthat16
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
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RIOVEGAS
October 3rd, 2019 at 3:27:23 PM permalink
Seems like a game I wouldn’t mind playing $5 on the first card red/black after a long day of green to black chip blackjack. I would play it for the slow pace and to milk two or three adult beverages.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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October 3rd, 2019 at 7:11:20 PM permalink
if the first two cards do not form any kind of connecting hand why even go to the third card?
TinMan
TinMan 
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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MrCasinoGames
October 5th, 2019 at 7:17:07 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

In the Slot Lady video they adjudicate the first card red/black bets sometimes after the second card and sometimes after the third. At least in the first two hands played. I should see if the casinos will let me make videos like this.



Mike--If you make videos like this, I'd certainly watch them. That said, could you bring yourself to make a sucker bet every hand? In her videos, she's always betting a side-bet, often for $5-25 every hand. I guess you could consider it a cost of production, but she's probably losing $50-100 in EV per hour video just in side bets.

Separately, after watching the La Pair'e video, I'm far less likely to ever play this. Pretty boring. In addition, it annoys me that "Any Pair'e" doesn't truly mean "any pair". It means 1st card and 2nd card pair, not 1st card and 3rd card pair or 2nd card and 3rd card pair. Also, it seems to be going for the feel of roulette a little, but you don't get the excitement of watching a ball bounce around and seeing the close calls. They just flip over a card. No suspense. I don't see this being successful.

I am curious how it would work with multiple people at the table. It looks like you each have a personal section for the base bets (red/black/pair/3CP-lite) but the "center" bets are communal. Would they use roulette style checks? Or rely on player memory (bad idea)? Or would the dealer have to be involved and set bets like at a craps table?
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
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October 5th, 2019 at 9:29:17 PM permalink
Quote: TinMan

In addition, it annoys me that "Any Pair'e" doesn't truly mean "any pair". It means 1st card and 2nd card pair, not 1st card and 3rd card pair or 2nd card and 3rd card pair.



this was also confusing to me especially when the joker came out. any joker means that there is a pair on the table no matter what.
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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October 13th, 2019 at 3:27:19 PM permalink
Quote: TinMan

....Also, it seems to be going for the feel of roulette a little, but you don't get the excitement of watching a ball bounce around and seeing the close calls. They just flip over a card. No suspense. I don't see this being successful...


I immediately thought of jurisdictions that don't allow balls/wheels and have card based roulette (e.g. California & Mystery Card Roulette). Oklahoma used to also be this way, but believe that law was changed in 2019 to where they now allow regular roulette.

I think the game is boring as well, but I don't play roulette for that reason and that is clearly the target player audience. I guess the appeal to those players would be higher payouts possible than roulette which they may opt for given a comparable HE.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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MrCasinoGames
October 14th, 2019 at 11:35:39 PM permalink
I’m staying at El Cortez last night and tonight. I spoke to one of the dealers about it and she told me that it’s very slow and confusing and not many people play it. That part was obvious to me since on the several occasions that I checked, the table was empty.

Here’s a photo of the new, slightly improved, rack card. Although it has some minor wording changes, the only real improvement is to add the El Cortez logo, and it’s on real card stock paper.

I present the side with the Le Pair’e logo first since that was the side facing out in the rack card holder on the table.



Quote: Wizard

I should see if the casinos will let me make videos like this.

You’ll note that the camera angle was such that it showed only the layout - no faces.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
TinMan
TinMan 
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October 16th, 2019 at 9:36:15 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I spoke to one of the dealers about it and she told me that it’s very slow and confusing and not many people play it. .



I feel like changing the layout could go a long way to making this more understandable. It's really a pretty simple game (other than some annoying quirks--eg., the joker is only a joker with respect to some bets but not others), but the layout is confusing. For example, there are essentially 3 main bets: (1) what will the first card be, (2) will the second card form a pair and (3) will the three cards form certain hands. But as the layout is arranged, the top row corresponds to the 2nd card bet (will there be a pair), the middle row corresponds to the 1st card bet and the three card bet is indicated in a very different format tucked away in the bottom of the layout. That bottom row also contains a variant of the 2nd card bet ("any pair'e"), which means there are two very different areas of the felt that are impacted by the second card.
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
mmaschin2
mmaschin2
Joined: Nov 5, 2019
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November 5th, 2019 at 11:59:56 AM permalink
OK, is it just me being dense, or do you get much better odds playing all of the ranks individually vs playing the Any Pair bet? It seems to me $1 bets on all of the ranks, including jokers pays a lot better than a $14 Any Pair bet.
Ajaxx
Ajaxx
Joined: Sep 15, 2019
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November 5th, 2019 at 9:19:29 PM permalink
Quote: mmaschin2

OK, is it just me being dense, or do you get much better odds playing all of the ranks individually vs playing the Any Pair bet? It seems to me $1 bets on all of the ranks, including jokers pays a lot better than a $14 Any Pair bet.


Actually, it's the other way around. Here are the house edges according to the Wizard of Odds article:
  • Pair of Jokers (1300:1) — 9.08%
  • Pair of Any Other Rank (225:1) — 5.24%
  • Any Pair'e (50:1 when jokers hit, 16:1 when other pairs hit) — 3.77%

If that seems unintuitive, it might be because you noticed that 16×$14 = $224, which is less than $225, and that 50×$14 = $700, which is much less than $1300. So you might think that by betting $1 on all 14 ranks you would get $225 when a regular pair hits and $1300 on a joker pair, as opposed to $224 on a regular pair and $700 for the jokers if you bet $14 on Any Pair'e. The only other possibility is that no pair comes out, in which case both strategies cost you exactly $14, so it might seem like the person doing 14 individual bets is better off for every win and in the same boat for every loss, putting them ahead overall.

Here's why that math isn't valid: if you bet $1 on all 14 ranks and a pair of queens hits, the $13 bet on the 13 other ranks is lost, so your actual profit would be $225 - $13 = $212, less than the $224 from Any Pair'e. In the rare case that a pair of jokers hits, you get $1300 - $13 = $1287, which is definitely better than the $700 from Any Pair'e, but since that is 78-times less likely, the 14-individual-bets strategy comes out behind way more than it comes out ahead.

You can arrive at the same result by thinking (like a video poker player) in terms of revenue instead of profit, meaning you look at the ratio of how many total chips you end up with versus how many you start with. In that framework, even money bets like red/black would be called 2-for-1 instead of 1-to-1, the straight-up pair bets would be called 226-for-1 instead of 225-to-1, and the Any Pair'e would be 17-for-1 instead of 16-for-1. By saying "for" we're essentially acting as if the house always takes your original wager upfront and then adds 1 extra unit back into the payout when you win (which is equivalent to keeping your original wager as we are used to). Betting $1 units on all 14 ranks would pay $226-for-$14 on every regular pair (because you're putting up $14 for the house upfront and you end up with $225 + your $1 original winning bet), whereas betting a $14 unit on Any Pair'e would be pay 17×$14-for-$14 bet, i.e. $238-for-$14.
Last edited by: Ajaxx on Nov 5, 2019
"Not only [does] God play dice... he sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen." ~ Stephen Hawking

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