THIS is the reason why I'm getting into the gaming industry
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Quote: FleaStiffto whom does igt sell?
i wish i knew but i am pretty sure NDAs are at play or its simply a piece of software nestled in another system that is branded as something else.
This kind of "Non-randomness" as a function of the clock has been used in some online video games for quite a few years.
Quote: MaxPenWho believes casinos wouldn't put rigged shufflers on the floor?
if you dont then where is your proof that this product hasnt been sold in that case? i show you a document which has word for word the exact definition of rigging, implying they have the ability somehow, and this is the crap response you give? this low effort crap is why the casino industry can get away with this stuff. welp max pen and some other are going to come along with nothing more than a " come onnnn think about it no one would do that". the same. crappy. response. every time. people like you bore me. and ill be taking your money at one point thats for sure.
players qualify for the bonus.
Quote: heatmapif you dont then where is your proof that this product hasnt been sold in that case? i show you a document which has word for word the exact definition of rigging, implying they have the ability somehow, and this is the crap response you give? this low effort crap is why the casino industry can get away with this stuff. welp max pen and some other are going to come along with nothing more than a " come onnnn think about it no one would do that". the same. crappy. response. every time. people like you bore me. and ill be taking your money at one point thats for sure.
You definitely don't get sarcasm.
After reading that, who would believe they don't or wouldn't use a gaffed shuffler? Is that better? Now one doesn't have to answer the question by drawing a logical conclusion for themself based on your post....geeze
By the way, you need to get over yourself.
Quote: gordonm888Thank you heatmap for posting this.
This kind of "Non-randomness" as a function of the clock has been used in some online video games for quite a few years.
can you point me toward some examples please
Quote: MaxPenYou definitely don't get sarcasm.
After reading that, who would believe they don't or wouldn't.
By the way, you need to get over yourself.
i personally hold some grudges for Zenking and how he was treated and i apologize because i remember how much blind doubt was thrown at him. i believe it drove him mad when no one supports you even though you know you see something DIFFERENT happening from caisno to casino.
once again i apologize
Quote: heatmapif you dont then where is your proof that this product hasnt been sold in that case? i show you a document which has word for word the exact definition of rigging, implying they have the ability somehow, and this is the crap response you give? this low effort crap is why the casino industry can get away with this stuff. welp max pen and some other are going to come along with nothing more than a " come onnnn think about it no one would do that". the same. crappy. response. every time. people like you bore me. and ill be taking your money at one point thats for sure.
In what way is this rigging? In what way is this tied to the shuffler at all? Seems pretty obvious that it's based on the player tracking system, since the collateral says it's designed to increase carded play. In that case, these bonuses have no relationship at all to the base game, except that you need to be participating in the base game when you're randomly picked for the jackpot. So, exactly the same setup as the slot system that is also described...
Every slot distributor has this. It has no link to the game hold, shuffle procedures, chances of winning in the base game, etc. Its a separate software program used to give away promotional money.
ZCore13
Quote: rdw4potusIn what way is this rigging? In what way is this tied to the shuffler at all? Seems pretty obvious that it's based on the player tracking system, since the collateral says it's designed to increase carded play. In that case, these bonuses have no relationship at all to the base game, except that you need to be participating in the base game when you're randomly picked for the jackpot. So, exactly the same setup as the slot system that is also described...
what?
" Based on the wildly successful Lucky Time slot bonus, Lucky Seat heats up TABLE GAME play"
" Lucky Seat is a time-based mystery jackpot that can only hit within the specific time frame you’ve chosen."
i wonder who "you" is.
"
Drive play by configuring to hit during periods of slack demand
Increase carded play on specific tables, pits or floor wide
Create specialized value for your high-end players
"
come on someone prove me otherwise. this is the same thing i just said. if you want to oppose my statement provide me with proof. show me a law or something that states this is illegal anywhere. Show me that this product doesnt sell. show me a reciept that it has sold.
its not a question anymore if it can happen its a question of where now
Quote: Zcore13As usual Heatmap (and now others) don't understand what he is reading. This is a promotional tool to try and get players to play on certain days or times. The casino would announce/advertise the promotion and and say something like "On Sundays between 9am and 5pm we will draw random hot seat winners ever half hour..."
Every slot distributor has this. It has no link to the game hold, shuffle procedures, chances of winning in the base game, etc. Its a separate software program used to give away promotional money.
ZCore13
Why ruin a perfectly good rant with facts?
Quote: Zcore13As usual Heatmap (and now others) don't understand what he is reading. This is a promotional tool to try and get players to play on certain days or times. The casino would announce/advertise the promotion and and say something like "On Sundays between 9am and 5pm we will draw random hot seat winners ever half hour..."
Every slot distributor has this. It has no link to the game hold, shuffle procedures, chances of winning in the base game, etc. Its a separate software program used to give away promotional money.
ZCore13
show me your brocure you use to promote it then, and how does it increase carded play in that case?
Quote: heatmapwhat?
" Based on the wildly successful Lucky Time slot bonus, Lucky Seat heats up TABLE GAME play"
" Lucky Seat is a time-based mystery jackpot that can only hit within the specific time frame you’ve chosen."
i wonder who "you" is.
"
Drive play by configuring to hit during periods of slack demand
Increase carded play on specific tables, pits or floor wide
Create specialized value for your high-end players
"
come on someone prove me otherwise. this is the same thing i just said. if you want to oppose my statement provide me with proof. show me a law or something that states this is illegal anywhere. Show me that this product doesnt sell. show me a reciept that it has sold.
its not a question anymore if it can happen its a question of where now
The casino company I work for uses a system like this to give away money. I programmed a system like that for a company back in the early 1990's.
Quote: heatmapshow me your brocure you use to promote it then, and how does it increase carded play in that case?
I dont have to show you anything. It happens in 100's of casinos across the country. My Casino just had one called the $$24,000 Take That Deal" promotion. At a specific time a random seat generator program selects a spot that a carded player was playing in. The longer they had been playing that day the more "tickets" they had in the drawing.
You make yourself look really bad with the constant uninformed information and accusations.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I dont have to show you anything. It happens in 100's of casinos across the country. My Casino just had one called the $$24,000 Take That Deal" promotion. At a specific time a random seat generator program selects a spot that a carded player was playing in. The longer they had been playing that day the more "tickets" they had in the drawing.
You make yourself look really bad with the constant uninformed information and accusations.
ZCore13
i thank you for you taking the time to repond but i am going to ask it to you like this. if the term "fair" means that everyone gets the same CHANCE of winning, how is it that something like this is fair?
Quote: heatmapi thank you for you taking the time to repond but i am going to ask it to you like this. if the term "fair" means that everyone gets the same CHANCE of winning, how is it that something like this is fair?
Fair in the sense that every person playing has a chance to win.
However to reward higher volume gamblers you get entries for x volume played.
High rollers usually win not because the game itself was rigged but because they had maybe 10,000 entries based their high rate of play while a low roller only 2 or 5 entries in the digital drum
The low roller could still be chosen so its fair.
Best analogy is playing lotto the person who buys just one ticket has the same fair chsnce of winning as everyone else. But less "entries" than a high roller who purchased 5000 different combinations
Quote: darkozFair in the sense that every person playing has a chance to win.
However to reward higher volume gamblers you get entries for x volume played.
High rollers usually win not because the game itself was rigged but because they had maybe 10,000 entries based their high rate of play while a low roller only 2 or 5 entries in the digital drum
The low roller could still be chosen so its fair.
Best analogy is playing lotto the person who buys just one ticket has the same fair chsnce of winning as everyone else. But less "entries" than a high roller who purchased 5000 different combinations
i ask of all of you. who plays the effing lottery? you all know its a bad proposition.
Quote: Zcore13I dont have to show you anything. It happens in 100's of casinos across the country. My Casino just had one called the $$24,000 Take That Deal" promotion. At a specific time a random seat generator program selects a spot that a carded player was playing in. The longer they had been playing that day the more "tickets" they had in the drawing.
You make yourself look really bad with the constant uninformed information and accusations.
ZCore13
Heatmap will drive himself crazy trying to figure out why the house edge alone has been grinding his money away for years.
Quote: heatmapi thank you for you taking the time to repond but i am going to ask it to you like this. if the term "fair" means that everyone gets the same CHANCE of winning, how is it that something like this is fair?
It doesn't have to be fair odds and it isn't advertised as fair odds. Odds are multiplied by how many points you earn previously during the promotion time. Someone that played 10 minutes at $10 per hand might have one "virtual ticket" in the drawing. Someone who played an hour at $25 might have 150 tickets.
But everyone can win.
ZCore13
Quote: heatmapi ask of all of you. who plays the effing lottery? you all know its a bad proposition.
I have been know to "invest" $1 or $2 when the jackpot is high..
Not if they target it to a specific table. I don't mind if they have it set up based on bigger/longer play earns more tickets(casinos open themselves up to AP''s when they do that, that's exactly what we want) however if they target specific table's and announce winner's in such a way that makes others think they had a chance to win at their table, then I think that crosses a line. It's the same a rigging a drawing.Quote: Zcore13It doesn't have to be fair odds and it isn't advertised as fair odds. Odds are multiplied by how many points you earn previously during the promotion time. Someone that played 10 minutes at $10 per hand might have one "virtual ticket" in the drawing. Someone who played an hour at $25 might have 150 tickets.
But everyone can win.
ZCore13
Quote: AxelWolfNot if they target it to a specific table. I don't mind if they have it set up based on bigger/longer play earns more tickets(casinos open themselves up to AP''s when they do that, that's exactly what we want) however if they target specific table's and announce winner's in such a way that makes others think they had a chance to win at their table, then I think that crosses a line. It's the same a rigging a drawing.
Agreed, unless the rules say they are targeting specific tables/games. I could hold an advertised promo for Three Card Poker players only or players betting $25 a hand minimum with the software. If it's advertised that way, that's fair as well.
ZCore13
In other words, I have no problem with the tool itself, but would if casinos lied by giving players the impression they could win, when it was impossible, given the time of day or table played at.
p.s. I recommend the woman in the red dress lean over and bet on the number 2.
Quote: AxelWolfLooks like we are all in agreement, other than heatmap. I really have no clue what he's going on about.
im just a skeptical person and always will be. i have little faith that humanity isnt greedy, and that most of the people who know things are bound by money and NDAs. ill shut up for now and hopefully my next find will have a bit more truth to it.
Friday Nights You Could Be The Winner Of $100!
Actively play any table game on Fridays between 7pm and 11pm for your chance to sit in the Home Run Hot Seat and win $100 cash. Grab a seat at the table and get ready to play.
The chairs at the craps table keep getting stolen back to where they came from.
Quote: WizardI will withhold judgement until I see how this is marketed to players. It would bother me if signage said any table can win, when the system is set to award a specific table or pit only. It would also bother me if signage said it could hit anytime, when it was programmed to hit at only certain slow times of the day.
In other words, I have no problem with the tool itself, but would if casinos lied by giving players the impression they could win, when it was impossible, given the time of day or table played at.
p.s. I recommend the woman in the red dress lean over and bet on the number 2.
It could randomly select one of the active tables, and then randomly select a player from that table. I believe that would still be fair for everyone.
Quote: heatmapim just a skeptical person and always will be. i have little faith that humanity isnt greedy, and that most of the people who know things are bound by money and NDAs. ill shut up for now and hopefully my next find will have a bit more truth to it.
As one who has programmed these "Hot Seat" promos, I can explain how the ones I have worked on were set up. I am not bound by an NDA. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
Quote: DRichAs one who has programmed these "Hot Seat" promos, I can explain how the ones I have worked on were set up. I am not bound by an NDA. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
I think my only question would be is there any type of advantage I could gain by playing during a promotional time. This ticket system seems like it could be potentially advantageous?
