Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 1:22:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This is very tentative, but for the base game I'm getting a house edge of 3.27%, using a modified blackjack program I have.



I found an error having to do with the fact that dealer can stop of fewer than 17 points. The 3.27% is incorrect. I'm working on correcting it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 1:25:21 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The rules you've posted say that the Stud BONUS wager pays if "your five card hand is a pair of jacks or better OR the sum of the Player's cards is 16 or less" - the latter criteria is the "Twisted Stud" hand.



I stand by that. Note it's "or" not "and."

Quote:

My reaction is that it seems unlikely to me that a 5 card hand summing up to 16 or less will occur at a frequency of 0.8 -0.9%, which is the probability you mention for the Twisted Stud hand in your earlier post.



Why do you think that?

Quote:

BTW, your payoff table in the WOO article still has a glitch. The payoff values for a Twisted Stud and a Flush are reversed.



Thanks for the correction there.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 1:29:31 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

So if I have a hand like A2345 or JJ222 , how do they determine which of the payouts I get? Theyd both qualify for twisted stud and a poker hand payout . In one case the poker hand payout is higher, and in the other the twisted stud payout is higher



I'm not sure about the A2345. It would get at least 6. The player would get 26 if the ace counted as 1 and the player got paid for both the straight and Twisted Stud. It would get paid 20 if the ace counted as 1 and the player got paid for the higher of the straight and the Twisted Stud. If the ace counted as 11 it would get paid 6 for sure. This is one where I need clarification on the rules.

JJ222 would get paid 75 for sure, because of the full house. There are 26 points in the hand, which is way over 16, so no Twisted Stud there.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
michael99000
michael99000 
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August 9th, 2019 at 2:43:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



JJ222 would get paid 75 for sure, because of the full house. There are 26 points in the hand, which is way over 16, so no Twisted Stud there.



You are right.

I meant to say a hand of 33222, which is a full house that qualifies as a twisted stud.

In which case Im sure only the full house gets paid

I cannot think of any game or side bet with a tiered payout like this , where the player gets paid for all of the winning hands his cards can produce. Has there been any ?
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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August 9th, 2019 at 3:14:12 PM permalink
I'm assuming that Aces can count as 1 and you don't need a Pair of Jacks or better when scoring 16 or under to win; thus a hand such as 33A45 would win. As I get it over book, I must have misunderstood something. However if the top prizes were 500 etc. and you needed a qualifying poker hand then it would make sense.
HandSuper PermsOther PermsPaysContribution
Super 16
21 708
20
455 868
Royal Flush
4
1 000
4 004
Straight Flush
36
500
18 036
Quads
624
200
125 424
Full House
3 744
75
284 544
Flush
4
5 104
15
81 664
Straight
1 020
9 180
6
64 260
Trips
3 392
51 520
4
257 600
Two Pairs
4 752
118 800
3
475 200
Pair of Jacks thru Kings
253 440
2
760 320
Pair of Aces
4 608
79 872
2
239 616
Pair of Twos
3 840
80 640
Pair of Threes
1 920
82 560
Pair of Fours
768
83 712
Pair of Fives
384
84 096
Pair of Sixes thru Tens
422 400
Nothing
1 020
1 301 520
21 708
2 577 252
0.835 257%
2 598 960
2 766 536

Note: I don't count Super hands, eg 33322, where the payout for the base hand is higher.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 3:49:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I found an error having to do with the fact that dealer can stop of fewer than 17 points. The 3.27% is incorrect. I'm working on correcting it.



After fixing that bug (not to say there aren't more), I'm getting 3.21%. Any other opinions?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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August 9th, 2019 at 3:50:36 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

I cannot think of any game or side bet with a tiered payout like this , where the player gets paid for all of the winning hands his cards can produce. Has there been any ?


Yes. The current version of Lunar Poker...

Quote: WOO

If a player's winning hand also contains a second poker combination, then the player will be paid for both combinations, even if the second combination doesn't beat the dealer's hand. For the second combination to qualify, it must contain at least one card which wasn't included in the first winning combination.


...although for most combinations the player is using 6 cards.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 3:53:38 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

I meant to say a hand of 33222, which is a full house that qualifies as a twisted stud.

In which case Im sure only the full house gets paid

I cannot think of any game or side bet with a tiered payout like this , where the player gets paid for all of the winning hands his cards can produce. Has there been any ?



Good point. The supervisor and dealer threw around the word "bonus" right and left. I interpret a "bonus" to mean an extra win. Like the Ante bonus in Three Card Poker -- you get it regardless of the rest of the hand outcome.

You're probably right. In which case I would say that "Stud Bonus" is a terrible name for a side bet, because it isn't a "bonus."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 3:55:14 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick


Note: I don't count Super hands, eg 33322, where the payout for the base hand is higher.



What's your table if you do count them?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 9th, 2019 at 4:19:47 PM permalink
I've analyzed an infinite-deck version of the base game two ways. Here are the results of the house edge:

Spreadsheet: 2.66%
Looping program: 3.24%

So there is an error somewhere. I tend to trust the spreadsheet number more.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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