Poll

2 votes (50%)
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No votes (0%)
1 vote (25%)
1 vote (25%)
3 votes (75%)
2 votes (50%)
1 vote (25%)

4 members have voted

MrCasinoGames
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February 14th, 2019 at 2:42:43 PM permalink

Side-Bonus® Blackjack™ was in ABBIATI's Booth, at ICE-London 2019. ​

* Side-Bonus® Blackjack™ Uses Two Optional Side-bets for any Blackjack games (Ten-20® Bonus™) and (Contrast® WIN™).

RULES:

* First Side-bet: Ten20® Bonus™, is a Side-bet for any Blackjack game.
The Ten-20® Bonus™ wins when the Player’s Initial Two-cards Blackjack-hand add-up to a 10 or 20 points.

1. Player may wager an Optional Side-bet (Ten20® Bonus™).

2. Player receives their Initial two-card Blackjack-hand.

3. The Ten-20® Bonus™ wins when the Player’s initial Two-card Blackjack-hand add-up to 10 or 20 points (see Pay-table).
Otherwise the Ten-20 bet loses.


* Second Side-bet: Contrast® WIN™, is a Side-bet for any Blackjack game.

1. Player may wager an Optional Side-bet (Contrast® WIN™).

2. Player must have both a red and black suit in his 2-card starting hand.

If the Player doesn’t have a red and black suit starting hand, then his Contrast-bet automatic loses.

3. Player complete his Blackjack game.

3a) If Player beats the Dealer, then his Contrast-WIN (if any) will win 3 to 1.

3b) If Player ties with the Dealer, then his Contrast-WIN (if any) ​will win 1 to 1.

3c) If Player lose to the Dealer, then his Contrast-WIN (if any) will lose.

* The Question is what do you think about (Side-Bonus® Blackjack™) and WHY?
P.S. Any Comments are Welcome Good/Bad (Please give Comments with reasons) so I know WHY and learn from it.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
rainman
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February 14th, 2019 at 4:20:52 PM permalink
I will spare you my usual biased opinion on side action and
say this, these bets are simple to understand and that"s
a big deal for a casual gambler. Many times I have sat at
a table when someone asked for a explanation of a side
bet only to be put off by a convoluted explanation of a
complicated bet, and when I say complicated I mean
complicated to a new player.
MrCasinoGames
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February 14th, 2019 at 7:13:44 PM permalink
Hi rainman,

Thanks for your comment.

I know what you mean with some Side-bets (complicated to a new player) and some are complicated to old player too.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
Gialmere
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February 15th, 2019 at 11:58:07 AM permalink
To give a fair assessment I'd need to play test them on a demo and know the HE. From what I'm reading, however, I prefer the Contrast wager to Ten-20.

The Ten-20 bet is a solid idea. My problem with it is that I'd be stuck actively hoping to NOT get a blackjack and I don't want to go there. The whole point of the game (and the reason I'm sitting at the table) is to GET blackjacks.

The contrast wager seems fun (maybe even countable) and, if I get a black/red blackjack, I'll make 3-2 on the main game and 3-1 on the side (or at worst tie for 1-1). That's much more pleasant to contemplate.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
michael99000
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February 15th, 2019 at 12:04:53 PM permalink
I like the 10-20 bet better.

I like the fact that , as compared to the similar lucky ladies and Kings ransom side bets , you cannot be dead after seeing your first card. No matter what you still have a chance to make a winning hand.
DogHand
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February 15th, 2019 at 1:33:01 PM permalink
Both sidebets seem to have high house edges.

As a first approximation, assume infinite decks.

For the 10-20 sidebet, every 169 deals the player will get 5,5 1 time, another 10 (2,8 8,2 3,7 7,3 4,6 or 6,4) 6 times, an A,9 or 9,A 2 times, and an X,X 16 times. Thus, the player's edge is

100%*((1*22 + 6*10 + 18*3) - 144)/169 = -7.1%

For finite decks, the "1" and "16" will decrease, while the "6" and "2" will increase.

For the Contrast sidebet, the sb will lose outright 50% of the time. When it doesn't lose outright, it will pay 3 about 41%, 1 about 8%, and lose the remaining 51% (the actual percentages depend on how the player plays, and on how split hands are resolved in terms of W/P/L). Combining gives a loss about 75.5% of the time, a win of 3 about 20.5%, and a win of 1 about 4%. Thus, the player's edge is

20.5%*3 + 4%*1 - 75.5% = -10%.

I would be disinclined to play either of these sidebets.

On the plus side, BJ's pay 3:2, and the dealer Stands on S17.

Dog Hand

P.S. michael99000, you seem to have misread the rules: the 10-20 sidebet is resolved on the player's first two cards only.

Edit: the equation "100%*((1*22 + 6*10 + 18*3) - 144)/169" I typed is correct, but I miscalculated the result: it should say -4.73%.
Last edited by: DogHand on Feb 15, 2019
MrCasinoGames
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February 15th, 2019 at 2:41:39 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Both sidebets seem to have high house edges.

As a first approximation, assume infinite decks.

For the 10-20 sidebet, every 169 deals the player will get 5,5 1 time, another 10 (2,8 8,2 3,7 7,3 4,6 or 6,4) 6 times, an A,9 or 9,A 2 times, and an X,X 16 times. Thus, the player's edge is

100%*((1*22 + 6*10 + 18*3) - 144)/169 = -7.1%

For finite decks, the "1" and "16" will decrease, while the "6" and "2" will increase.

For the Contrast sidebet, the sb will lose outright 50% of the time. When it doesn't lose outright, it will pay 3 about 41%, 1 about 8%, and lose the remaining 51% (the actual percentages depend on how the player plays, and on how split hands are resolved in terms of W/P/L). Combining gives a loss about 75.5% of the time, a win of 3 about 20.5%, and a win of 1 about 4%. Thus, the player's edge is

20.5%*3 + 4%*1 - 75.5% = -10%.

I would be disinclined to play either of these sidebets.

On the plus side, BJ's pay 3:2, and the dealer Stands on S17.

Dog Hand

P.S. michael99000, you seem to have misread the rules: the 10-20 sidebet is resolved on the player's first two cards only.


Hi DogHand,

Both of your House-Edge estimate is wrong.
I will post the House-Edge of the 2 Side-bets here next week, If nobody done it by then.

Thanks for your comments.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
michael99000
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February 15th, 2019 at 3:52:33 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand



P.S. michael99000, you seem to have misread the rules: the 10-20 sidebet is resolved on the player's first two cards only.


How did I misread the rules ? I know it’s based on the first 2 cards.

In Kings Ransom and Lucky Ladies, if your first card dealt is not a 9, 10, J, Q, K, or A, you have no chance to win.

In this 10-20 bet. No matter what your first card is , you still have a shot to win.
DogHand
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February 15th, 2019 at 6:32:23 PM permalink
Ahh, sorry. I read your comment as being "No matter what your first two cards are, you still have a chance." I see now that I misinterpreted what you wrote.

Dog Hand
Gialmere
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February 15th, 2019 at 7:27:54 PM permalink
It would be fascinating to watch some AP savant play this game. You'd have to know basic strategy (doubles, splits, surrender etc.) for a given table's rules. You'd have to track the Running Count and the True Count. You would have (or I assume at least want) to also use the Wizard's Ace/Five count which would help with both the main game and the Ten-20 side-bet. Finally, you'd want to track the Color Count looking for balance to make the Contrast wager.

All this while acting like you're not paying attention. Fun stuff.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
ssho88
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February 15th, 2019 at 7:49:49 PM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Hi DogHand,

Both of your House-Edge estimate is wrong.
I will post the House-Edge of the 2 Side-bets here next week, If nobody done it by then.

Thanks for your comments.



1)House edge(6 deck) for Ten-20 bet = 5.391% (1 billion rounds simulation). House edge for 8 deck = 5.227%

2)Second Side-bet: Contrast® WIN™ is depends on player basic strategy, you should provide full BJ game rules in order to have correct basic strategy.

One more question : For Contrast® WIN™, if initial two cards are 4 of spade and 5 of club, both also black, means automatically loss 1 unit ? what If player split his initial two cards ?
Last edited by: ssho88 on Feb 15, 2019
MrCasinoGames
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February 15th, 2019 at 9:57:23 PM permalink
Quote: ssho88

1)House edge(6 deck) for Ten-20 bet = 5.391% (1 billion rounds simulation). House edge for 8 deck = 5.227%

2)Second Side-bet: Contrast® WIN™ is depends on player basic strategy, you should provide full BJ game rules in order to have correct basic strategy.

One more question : For Contrast® WIN™, if initial two cards are 4 of spade and 5 of club, both also black, means automatically loss 1 unit ? what If player split his initial two cards ?


Hi ssho88,
Yes, Your Math on the Ten-20 bet (House-Edge) is 100% crrect, Thanks.

Regarding the Contrast® WIN™ (Read below)

* The Player may not surrender a hand with a Red-Black side bet.
* If the Player splits his hand, the Red-Black side bet stays with the first hand. The
Player does not match his Red-Black side bet when splitting.


* House-Edge:

The minimum house edge for the Red-Black Win side bet is calculated for the limiting case where the main bet is zero compared to the side bet.

The actual house edge on smaller side bets is only slightly higher than this minimum calculated value.

The house edge of the side bet only is computed by breaking down the two-card starting hands into red-black hands, and non red-black hands.

All non red-black hands return a value of -1. The red-black hands are analyzed by finding their optimal decisions at each point (e.g., hit, stand, double, etc.) using an exact analysis of the remaining shoe composition to compute the expectation value (EV) of each decision.

For split hands, a small approximation is made by assuming infinite re-splits. I.e., the probability of the hand encountering the re-split limit, then played as a pair, is excluded.

This approximation has a very small effect on the total return of the side bet.

The house edge for the side bet is not affected by main game rule variations like late surrender (LS), double-down rules (double-after-split, double-anytime), or even no
dealer hole card (ENHC).

This is because the player should never surrender a live side bet, nor would double-down any hand where the side bet dominates the main bet.

Similarly, for a zero main bet, the split decision is not affected by ENHC.

The only main game rule that affects the minimum house edge for the Red-Black Win bet is whether the dealer hits on soft-17 (H17) or not (S17).

House-Edge % will be post here next week.
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Feb 15, 2019
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 1:28:35 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Hi ssho88,
Yes, Your Math on the Ten-20 bet (House-Edge) is 100% crrect, Thanks.

Regarding the Contrast® WIN™ (Read below)

* The Player may not surrender a hand with a Red-Black side bet.
* If the Player splits his hand, the Red-Black side bet stays with the first hand. The
Player does not match his Red-Black side bet when splitting.


* House-Edge:

The minimum house edge for the Red-Black Win side bet is calculated for the limiting case where the main bet is zero compared to the side bet.

The actual house edge on smaller side bets is only slightly higher than this minimum calculated value.

The house edge of the side bet only is computed by breaking down the two-card starting hands into red-black hands, and non red-black hands.

All non red-black hands return a value of -1. The red-black hands are analyzed by finding their optimal decisions at each point (e.g., hit, stand, double, etc.) using an exact analysis of the remaining shoe composition to compute the expectation value (EV) of each decision.

For split hands, a small approximation is made by assuming infinite re-splits. I.e., the probability of the hand encountering the re-split limit, then played as a pair, is excluded.

This approximation has a very small effect on the total return of the side bet.

The house edge for the side bet is not affected by main game rule variations like late surrender (LS), double-down rules (double-after-split, double-anytime), or even no
dealer hole card (ENHC).

This is because the player should never surrender a live side bet, nor would double-down any hand where the side bet dominates the main bet.

Similarly, for a zero main bet, the split decision is not affected by ENHC.

The only main game rule that affects the minimum house edge for the Red-Black Win bet is whether the dealer hits on soft-17 (H17) or not (S17).

House-Edge % will be post here next week.



I don't see how you can assume the main bet is zero compared to the side bet. In real play player should bet at least the minimum bet size for main bet, What if the main bet amount is much higher than Side-bet: Contrast® WIN™ in real play ? Are you saying that player can only bet Contrast® WIN™ WITHOUT betting the main bet ?
charliepatrick
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February 16th, 2019 at 2:31:59 AM permalink
If you were only playing the side bet the aim would be biassed towards improving your chances of winning.

Logically you can think of it as if your side bet is $5, then in Phase One it turns into a $10 BJ bet which, in Phase Two, could then win $10 if you win the BJ hand and stays at $10 if you tie, or loses if you lose. The chances of Phase One is marginally over 50%. Whereas the chances in Phase Two is affected by
(a) being able to make free defensive splits (e.g. starting on 8 rather than 16, or splitting 2s vs 8), I'm guessing you split Aces as one card with A is probably better than hitting AA.
(b) not doubling any total (hitting has a better chance to win)
(c) not recieving 3 to 2 on Blackjacks
Other than not doubling and making any split which gives you a better starting hand, the hitting and standing rules would be the same.

I haven't done the maths but it would assume you split A236789 vs A and am guessing (apart from sometimes not splitting 9's) you do the same against anything!

Personally I prefer side-bets which have no effect of the House Edge of your main bet and in this case, as others have mentioned, wonder if you're allowed to make the side bet without the main bet.
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 3:32:50 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

If you were only playing the side bet the aim would be biassed towards improving your chances of winning.

Logically you can think of it as if your side bet is $5, then in Phase One it turns into a $10 BJ bet which, in Phase Two, could then win $10 if you win the BJ hand and stays at $10 if you tie, or loses if you lose. The chances of Phase One is marginally over 50%. Whereas the chances in Phase Two is affected by
(a) being able to make free defensive splits (e.g. starting on 8 rather than 16, or splitting 2s vs 8), I'm guessing you split Aces as one card with A is probably better than hitting AA.
(b) not doubling any total (hitting has a better chance to win)
(c) not recieving 3 to 2 on Blackjacks
Other than not doubling and making any split which gives you a better starting hand, the hitting and standing rules would be the same.

I haven't done the maths but it would assume you split A236789 vs A and am guessing (apart from sometimes not splitting 9's) you do the same against anything!

Personally I prefer side-bets which have no effect of the House Edge of your main bet and in this case, as others have mentioned, wonder if you're allowed to make the side bet without the main bet.




If the main bet is mandatory, then player should not bet the sucker SIDE BET : Contrast® WIN™, otherwise you are unable to cope with one without letting go of the other.
MrCasinoGames
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February 16th, 2019 at 4:04:35 AM permalink
Thanks ALL for the Comments.

The FULL Report for (Contrast® WIN™) will be Post here Next-Week.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 4:18:22 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Thanks ALL for the Comments.

The FULL Report for (Contrast® WIN™) will be Post here Next-Week.



Is main bet mandatory ?
MrCasinoGames
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February 16th, 2019 at 4:23:33 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Is main bet mandatory ?


Thanks for asking.
Yes, Main bet is mandatory.
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Feb 16, 2019
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
MrCasinoGames
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February 16th, 2019 at 4:23:51 AM permalink
Why not just use All Side-Bonus®/Side-bets & no BJ? You ASKED.

* It has been done Over 10-Years ago (Hybrid Triple Bet®) and trialed in Grosvenor Casinos UK on July 15th 2011.
Click on Link Wizard of Vegas: http://bit.ly/2Ed1It7



1. The game is played with six decks of standard card dealt from a shoe or shuffle machine. The game is unusual in consisting of three separate wagers, for effectively three separate games but played during the same hand.

2. Players must first place three wagers on the three betting circles in front of them, being:-

3. Flush Bet (top)

4. Sandwich Bet (middle)

5. Block Bet (bottom)

6. The three wagers may each be for different amounts within the table maximums, but participating players must make all three wagers.


P.S. A new version of Hybrid Triple Bet® will be coming soon.
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Feb 16, 2019
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ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 5:07:05 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Yes, Main bet is mandatory.



Then how can you assume the main bet is zero when calculate the house edge of Contrast® WIN™ ? Are you saying that player have to "sacrifice" the main bet when try to "save" Contrast® WIN™ side bet ?
DogHand
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February 16th, 2019 at 5:08:43 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

If you were only playing the side bet the aim would be biassed towards improving your chances of winning.

Logically you can think of it as if your side bet is $5, then in Phase One it turns into a $10 BJ bet which, in Phase Two, could then win $10 if you win the BJ hand and stays at $10 if you tie, or loses if you lose. The chances of Phase One is marginally over 50%. Whereas the chances in Phase Two is affected by
(a) being able to make free defensive splits (e.g. starting on 8 rather than 16, or splitting 2s vs 8), I'm guessing you split Aces as one card with A is probably better than hitting AA.
(b) not doubling any total (hitting has a better chance to win)
(c) not recieving 3 to 2 on Blackjacks
Other than not doubling and making any split which gives you a better starting hand, the hitting and standing rules would be the same.

I haven't done the maths but it would assume you split A236789 vs A and am guessing (apart from sometimes not splitting 9's) you do the same against anything!

Personally I prefer side-bets which have no effect of the House Edge of your main bet and in this case, as others have mentioned, wonder if you're allowed to make the side bet without the main bet.



charliepatrick,

The fact that pushes are worth +1 rather than 0 will likely change some plays. For example (with S17) A,6 vs. 7 might be S. Also, X,2 vs. 4 might be H.

The real trick is that Basic Strategy for the "sidebet plus main BJ bet" combined B.S. depends on whether or not the first two cards are red+black and, if so, what the Main-to-Side bet ratio is. Thus, the player will need to know 2 or more strategy tables: one for "normal" B.S. (when the r+b fails), and one for each MtS ratio that he uses.

Dog Hand
MrCasinoGames
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February 16th, 2019 at 5:12:30 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Then how can you assume the main bet is zero when calculate the house edge of Contrast® WIN™ ? Are you saying that player have to "sacrifice" the main bet when try to "save" Contrast® WIN™ side bet ?


Hi ssho88,

YES, You got it "Player have to "sacrifice" the main bet when try to "save" Contrast® WIN™ Side-bet.

THE Catch is:
* The amount of the Side-bet may exceed the amount of the Main-bet.

So you can have $1 on the Main-bet and $1,000 or more on the Side-bet.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 6:53:02 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Hi ssho88,

YES, You got it "Player have to "sacrifice" the main bet when try to "save" Contrast® WIN™ Side-bet.

THE Catch is:
* The amount of the Side-bet may exceed the amount of the Main-bet.

So you can have $1 on the Main-bet and $1,000 or more on the Side-bet.



Then players even lose more since sidebet have much higher house edge. . . .LOL
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 6:58:48 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand

charliepatrick,

The fact that pushes are worth +1 rather than 0 will likely change some plays. For example (with S17) A,6 vs. 7 might be S. Also, X,2 vs. 4 might be H.

The real trick is that Basic Strategy for the "sidebet plus main BJ bet" combined B.S. depends on whether or not the first two cards are red+black and, if so, what the Main-to-Side bet ratio is. Thus, the player will need to know 2 or more strategy tables: one for "normal" B.S. (when the r+b fails), and one for each MtS ratio that he uses.

Dog Hand



Then just learn one basic strategy for main bet ! why you spend more time to learn more strategy to lose more . . . LOL
MrCasinoGames
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February 16th, 2019 at 7:02:15 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

Then players even lose more since sidebet have much higher house edge. . . .LOL


Yes ssho88, you are Right again (sidebet have much higher house-edge).

But, We are talking about the House-edge, and not how big or small the House-Edge is (as Always Side-bets are Sucker bets).
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
ssho88
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February 16th, 2019 at 7:08:52 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Yes ssho88, you are Right again (sidebet have much higher house-edge).

But, We are talking about the House-edge, and not how big or small the House-Edge is (as Always Side-bets are Sucker bets).



Agreed. The strategy is very much depend on the ratio of (sidebet amount)/(main bet amount) as pointed out by doghand.
MrCasinoGames
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February 17th, 2019 at 7:04:59 AM permalink
Quote: Gialmere


The Ten-20 bet is a solid idea. My problem with it is that I'd be stuck actively hoping to NOT get a blackjack and I don't want to go there. The whole point of the game (and the reason I'm sitting at the table) is to GET blackjacks.


Hi Gialmere,

You will like My NEW Side-Bonus® Blackjack™ Odds-Win® (Based on 2 Blackjack Side-bets) Blackjacks is a Great-Hand for the both Side-bets.
I will post this NEW (Side-Bonus® Blackjack™ Odds-Win®) here as soon as it is ready for the public.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
MrCasinoGames
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February 22nd, 2019 at 5:05:02 AM permalink
Sorry wrong post.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
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