lightningbolts
lightningbolts
Joined: Jan 16, 2017
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June 13th, 2018 at 12:02:45 PM permalink
The community cards should be dealt first as a game protection measure. You put a cut card in the shuffler that comes out under the packet so people can't hole card. It has nothing to do with rigging the shuffle.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
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June 13th, 2018 at 3:13:04 PM permalink
^Thanks. Was waiting for that, and don't have to know much of the specifics of the game to have known there'd be somesuch. Sheesh.

That's leaving aside the drooling idiocy of someone somewhere somehow imagining that they'd potentially maximize or better increase net revenue by some complex nefarious plot that involves rigging the shuffle... rather than simply setting the payout explicitly and above board at the rate which... get this, hold your breath now: maximizes total net revenue. Like the price of tea in China or totally opaque slot machine hold or anything else in the world, the volume of play (how much of your stuff people buy) will vary according to the inverse of house hold (price of the product). How much and how often the players get paid something, and therefore how much they like doing it (without any knowledge of that hold rate necessarily becoming involved) determines how often for how much for for how long they will naturally feel like doing so.

Which is all a description of exactly what every competent enterprise and individual seeks to do in charging for their goods & services, everywhere, all the time, as they should, including the kid running a corner lemonade stand if the poor little nipper is of something near normal reasoning ability and motivation. And is the most basic fundamental elementary concept of market economics that SHOULD have been retained, if nothing else ever was, by those who were not hopelessly stoned or otherwise cognitively impaired during school hours in their pre-teen years and beyond. As price (house hold) of something rises, demand (play volume) declines, and one always seeks to set the former at the level which maximizes the final net total of price x volume (minus marginal cost).

If your game's rate of house hold is too low so it does not already maximize revenue, then you are simply incompetent. If your hold is too low and you raise it to the optimum level THIS WAY instead of doing so explicitly in the rules & payouts of your games, then you are both incompetent at pursuing your own self-interest and also congenitally sleazy. If your game's hold rate does already maximize revenue, and you surreptitiously increase the hold further beyond that optimal revenue maximizing rate then you only hurt the total net result for your own business, and in that case are not only criminally incompetent but beyond that also too spectacularly stupid to remain employed in a responsible position of any sort, even in a simple criminal enterprise. Which you likely won't for too long because of your propensity for hurting your own revenue through such childish moronic nonsense. Good freaking grief.

In the whole wide world I don't doubt that somewhere sometime there probably would exist an exceptionally stupid crook that's actually incompetent enough to do this. But they flunked out of the intro to MAKING MORE MONEY (instead of LESS) by stealing class.
Last edited by: DrawingDead on Jun 13, 2018
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
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June 13th, 2018 at 5:18:56 PM permalink
Quote: lightningbolts

The community cards should be dealt first as a game protection measure. You put a cut card in the shuffler that comes out under the packet so people can't hole card. It has nothing to do with rigging the shuffle.




our casino solved this problem by leaving the house cards in the shuffler until all players have acted.....my own view on this game is like most: no need to cheat just open the doors.
get second you pig
Fox
Fox
Joined: Oct 26, 2017
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June 14th, 2018 at 7:34:54 AM permalink
I don't know what about you, but it seems to me that today all casinos have "tightened the nut". I mean, that it became harder to win than before. Everybody driven by greed(((
Gamblingsensey
gordonm888
gordonm888
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June 14th, 2018 at 12:52:17 PM permalink
By the way, theoretically, I think the worst set of community cards for the casino are J-J-J.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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June 14th, 2018 at 2:12:01 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

By the way, theoretically, I think the worst set of community cards for the casino are J-J-J.


How would 10,J,Q suited do versus J J J ?
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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June 14th, 2018 at 2:21:08 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

By the way, theoretically, I think the worst set of community cards for the casino are J-J-J.


Still waiting for a 3oak community and everyone be dealt pocket pairs.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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June 14th, 2018 at 2:50:00 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Still waiting for a 3oak community and everyone be dealt pocket pairs.


I saw 3 out of 4 players get fh with a trips board once.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
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June 16th, 2018 at 5:49:58 PM permalink
If the number of community cards is different than the number of cards delivered to the players, then they have to be delivered first. Otherwise, the machine would have to deal out hands to every spot, like Pai Gow Poker, whether there was a player there or not.

It is much more efficient to deal the odd packet first, and then as many packets as necessary for the players and then hit the green button to dispense the rest of the deck.

It amazes me how many rational thinking people think that Shuffle Master, which is now part of a HUGE company, Scientific Gaming, would have any reason to have a way for their devices to be used dishonestly. It would destroy their entire business model, which is fast, secure, random shuffling. What would motivate them to do anything different? Same reasoning goes for the casinos. IF they could reverse engineer the programming (Big IF), what motivation would they have to cheat? It has been proven over literally a hundred years, that the small house edge the casino enjoys is enough to make gazillions of dollars. Why risk the goose that lays the golden eggs for a couple measly extra dollars?

Every time I hear the Shuffle Master is Rigged argument my head explodes.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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June 16th, 2018 at 6:21:08 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

If the number of community cards is different than the number of cards delivered to the players, then they have to be delivered first. Otherwise, the machine would have to deal out hands to every spot, like Pai Gow Poker, whether there was a player there or not.

It is much more efficient to deal the odd packet first, and then as many packets as necessary for the players and then hit the green button to dispense the rest of the deck.

It amazes me how many rational thinking people think that Shuffle Master, which is now part of a HUGE company, Scientific Gaming, would have any reason to have a way for their devices to be used dishonestly. It would destroy their entire business model, which is fast, secure, random shuffling. What would motivate them to do anything different? Same reasoning goes for the casinos. IF they could reverse engineer the programming (Big IF), what motivation would they have to cheat? It has been proven over literally a hundred years, that the small house edge the casino enjoys is enough to make gazillions of dollars. Why risk the goose that lays the golden eggs for a couple measly extra dollars?

Every time I hear the Shuffle Master is Rigged argument my head explodes.



I agree the issue is not happening. However, that's not to say it couldn't be done, just that it's not being done.

My problem with the dealing structure is that they have other options (and some of them use them) to dealing the community cards first (as you rightly note, the only practical way to automate it), then the dealer's hand, and THEN the player hands. This specific order just begs people to think there's something going on.

They COULD deal the player hands after the community cards, THEN the dealer's hand.

They COULD deal all the player hands, then the dealer hand, and allow initial bets before hand-dealing the community cards.

They COULD just let the shuffler work, then hand-pitch the game.

They COULD even add a hand cut onto the cut card once out of the shuffler.

Every one of those would serve to randomize the deal, progressively better mechanics to reduce the appearance of monkeyshines.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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