FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 18th, 2017 at 6:01:11 AM permalink
Educated gamblers? They all know its not in their favor but hope springs eternal. Its like the Insurance Bet: everyone knows its bad but no one can explain why.

Pay to Play.... great idea but casinos still won't give you a fair bet. They want a house edge on the bet and a fee to play.

Brick and Mortar casinos offer more than gambling.
Online sites offer gambling and the only females in low cut gowns are purely digital.

Those internet café type "casinos" make a fortune and have happy customers who usually are puffing away in peace.
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
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December 18th, 2017 at 6:36:26 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Pay to Play.... great idea but casinos still won't give you a fair bet. They want a house edge on the bet and a fee to play.


Thanks FleaStiff. You only highlight the sheer lack of balance. However if the charge would be equivalent to a reasonable house edge that could be accepted. Especially 1 cent for 1$ is intriguing. IGT has Double Bonus Spin Roulette @ 98.06% and Triple Bonus Spin Roulette @ 98.11% so this is perfectly doable.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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December 18th, 2017 at 8:31:27 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Parlors within a few miles of Mountaineer and also in the middle of nowhere I've seen in WV, all slots 7.99% hold, when Mountaineer has a casino wide average 10-11% last I heard. These have 1 nickel minimums. Still that way when the parlors are no longer full all day and night because smoking is banned by the county board of health.

I also had never been in the internet parlors we used to have in Ohio, aka sweepstakes cafe, heard many people raved about them, they thought they had much better odds than casinos. Around the same time Hollywood opened, miraculously, the judges shut them all down. Heard lots of people made money with them when they were open, taking advantage of play bonuses and the places didn't do W2Gs.



That's true, but the parlors are pretty heavily restricted as to what games they can even offer.

Besides that, you have to look at the total package of what you are getting against that house edge. The parlors aren't going to have 10x point multiplier days upon which you get 2% of all of your coin-in back. The parlors, obviously, don't have any mail offers or drawings of any kind. They don't have any slot tournaments.

That's why it's difficult to just look at the returns on the reels and compare them like it is apples for apples, because it's not. If you look at the total value (assuming someone is not an AP and just plays slots/keno) as long as that person is playing in the casino while something is actually going on, they've probably got it roughly the same once you consider mail.

The parlors also have free cola and chips, but the casinos will give players free buffets, hotel rooms and other food credits.

Ultimately, I would say that you have to have a fairly uniform hold in the region of 8% to have any hope of even being considered competitive. It doesn't make the parlors a better deal, though, when you look at the whole package.

The closest Internet cafe in Ohio to me was about forty miles from where I used to live. I did mean to check it out, but never got around to it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
russ451
russ451
Joined: Dec 18, 2017
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December 18th, 2017 at 2:23:48 PM permalink
They already do this with live poker.

They skim a little off each hand and don't care who wins.

Russ
It's only impossible until somebody does it.
MB
MB
Joined: Aug 20, 2015
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December 19th, 2017 at 9:02:01 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Well, since nobody is going to buy it, I guess you'll just have to open your own casino and see what happens.



Letís assume casinos offer a version of roulette with no zeroes that charged 1% (rounded up). Given the choice, I would play that game over any other version of roulette. I would not play that modified roulette game over craps or blackjack. Partly because of the better house edge, partly because I find roulette fairly boring.

MattUK, can you be precise about how this would work for a craps variant?
Mission146
Mission146
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December 19th, 2017 at 9:13:07 PM permalink
Not to speak for him, but Craps would be easy. You can bet on whatever number you like for the fee, at any time, but it pays true odds. No more Lines/Come bets. Field triples on both 2 & 12, but you pay the fee.

Iím not suggesting the implementation isnít easy, Iím saying that the casinos wouldnít do it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
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December 20th, 2017 at 7:44:58 AM permalink
Quote: MB

MattUK, can you be precise about how this would work for a craps variant?



Craps is a game of chance with a lot of sucker bets to confuse. Essentially it's a hybrid between flat house edge game (like European Roulette) and blackjack. Even French Roulette is a hybrid game because it has 7 bets and only 1 correct (even money). It is not true that the French Roulette has the RTP of 98.65%. It is a range between 97.30% and 98.65% depends on the composition of bets. The difference between Craps and French Roulette is that craps has up to a whopping 1% higher RTP for a top bet (or a sequence to be precise) because it's more complicated and confusing. I do not propose to apply this idea to games with sucker bets. It would complicate it even further. On the contrary, I think it works great to enable better RTP where there is a single flat house edge. This can be achieved by (slightly) increasing the multiplier over your competitors (for example - they deduct 1 cent from every 1$ so you deduct 1 cent from every 1.05$) or by boosting the odds during happy hours. For example - standard 1 cent from every 1$ (98% RTP) and 1 cent from every 2$ (99% RTP) during happy hour, 1 hour per day (or one evening per week). The level of optimal craps game is at 1 cent from 5$ wegered. If you think it's better than craps 24/7 you are not alone. The third way is to give better odds (hence: multiplier) to VIP customers.
Last edited by: MattUK on Dec 20, 2017
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
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December 20th, 2017 at 7:54:29 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You can bet on whatever number you like for the fee, at any time, but it pays true odds.


What you're talking about Admin are not craps but another variant of my idea that I'm going to present to some people. I already have the name of the game and an idea how this could be presented on a video game.
The cruicial question however is this - why the casinos wouldn't be interested if that's how the slots work anyway? After all, it's all about the numbers as you said?
Last edited by: MattUK on Dec 20, 2017
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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December 20th, 2017 at 8:14:46 AM permalink
Quote: MattUK

What you're talking about Admin are not craps but another variant of my idea that I'm going to present to some people. I already have athe name of the game and how this could work on a video game.
The cruicial question however is this - why the casinos wouldn't be interested if that's how the slots work anyway? After all, it's all about the numbers as you said?



Yeah, bigger numbers than the ones you propose.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
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December 20th, 2017 at 8:29:38 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Yeah, bigger numbers than the ones you propose.


You know it's not true. I haven't proposed specific fee but the idea to change what is currently upside down. And even if I mentioned 1% HE equivalent it's because that's where disruptive online casino could be. This is what is required - and enough - to make any other game of chance obsolete, including 1 deck baccarat. You FINALLY understand it so what are your thoughts?
PS: To put that into perspective, pass / don't pass bet is a fee for making bet on (true) odds. In some way I propose to simplify this pre-digital fee into a single fee deducted automatically. That's how it works when you use a credit card. They don't give you a dice to throw. Maybe that's a better answer to MB's question.
Last edited by: MattUK on Dec 20, 2017

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