JimLee
• Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 27, 2016
September 27th, 2016 at 11:02:19 PM permalink
I am from China and now live in U.S. Wizard's website is fantastic, fascinating, amazing and marvelous. I believe it is the best website in casino area. I learned so much from Wizard's website. I feel that Wizard saved so many gamblers that they should give you some award/medal.

Recently, I start to play Paigow poker and love this game a lot. I found that Wizard have the most sophisticated analysis of Paigow poker ever in his website. Well, right now I often play Paigow poker in a casino in Midwest. They have a house way different than any of the house ways listed in his website. They do not like to release their house way. I summarized their houseway through the dealer play and asking dealer. And there are a few times dealer referred to a ¡°House rule sheet¡±. I managed to catch and remember the writings on that paper. I believe I already get accurately all their houseway.

Well, it looks like their houseway are very weak compare to others¡¯ house way. I wonder if I published here all the houseway they use. Is it possible for anyone to get a house edge given that player use the Wizard's published Paigow strategy? And is it possible to defeat that game?

Here is the houseway in the first reply
JimLee
• Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 27, 2016
September 27th, 2016 at 11:02:31 PM permalink
* W = Wild, T=10, CSHD=club spade heart diamond

No pair: Put the second and third highest card in low hand
Ex. AJ87632 -> A7632 / J8

One Pair: Put the pair in high hand. Put the highest and second highest card in low hand
Ex: AAQ7632-> AA632 / Q7

Two pairs: low pairs = 2-6 pairs, median pairs = 7-10 pairs, high pairs = J-A pairs
Always split two pairs if no singleton A/W in seven cards
Ex: 6633975 -> 66975/ 33
Only split median-high or high-high pairs if there is singleton A/W. Put other two pairs together.
Ex: 6633A75-> 66335/ A7

Three pairs: Always put the highest pair in low hands

Triple: Always put Triple in high hand except AAA or AAW. Put one Ace in the low hand for AAA or AAW.
Ex: 4447632 -> 44432/ 76 ; AA A7632 -> AA632/ A7

Two Triples: Always put the pair from higher triple in low hand.
Ex: 3337779 -> 33379/ 77

Full house: Always put the pair in the low hands and triple in the high hand
Ex: 33377A9 -> 333A9/ 77

Four of a kind:
2-6 four of kinds, always put four of kind together in the high hand
Ex: 33337A9 -> 33337/ A9
7-K four of kinds, always split to two pairs and put in high and low hands respectively
Unless there is another pair or a singleton A/W, in this case put the pair or a singleton A/W in low hand.
Ex: QQQQ332 ->QQQQ2/ 33; QQQQW32 -> QQQQ2/ W3
Four Aces, always split to two pairs and put in high and low hands respectively
Unless there is another high pair(J-K), in this case put the high pair in low hand.
Ex: AAAAJJ4 -> AAAA4 /JJ; AAAA 432 -> AA432/ AA

Five Aces: Always split to AA and AAA except AAAAWKK
Ex: AAAAW23 -> AAA32/ AW; AAAAWKK-> AAAAW/KK

The above is the strategy for the 7 cards without any straight, flush or straight flush

If there is any possible straight(s) and/or flush(f) and/or straight flush(sf) in the 7 cards, refer to the below

No pair: Put the s/f/sf in high hand which makes the best low hand
(Sometimes both s or f or sf can be made, in this case, choose the high hand which makes the low hand highest)
Ex: d4,d5,d6,d7,c8,h10,dA -> d4,d5,d6,d7,c8 / dA, h10;
c8,d5,d6,d7,W,h10,d2 -> d2,d5,d6,d7,W/ h10,c8

One Pair: Put the s/f/sf in high hand which makes the best low hand even if the pair need to be split into 2 singletons
Ex: 567899W -> 5678W /99

Two Pair: use the two pairs rules regardless the s/f/sf.
But sometimes with W, it is possible to make a s/f/sf in high hand and a pair in low hand. If so, do in that way.
Ex: 2244365 -> 44356/ 22

Three pairs: use the three pairs rule regardless the s/f/sf

Triple: Split a pair from triple and make sure the high hand can make a s/f/sf.
If the triple are AAW (not AAA), it is possible that the high hand is unable to form s/f/sf with a pair in low hand. In this case, do not put a pair in low hand and make sure that the high hand can form s/f/sf.
Ex: 3334567 -> 34567/ 33; AAWKQJ7 -> AKQJW/ A7

Full house: use the full house rule regardless the s/f/sf
If the 7 cards can be split into a pair and a s/f/sf, put the pair in low hand and s/f/sf in high hand.
Ex: AW22234 ->A234W /22; JJAAWQK -> AAWKQ /JJ
odiousgambit
• Posts: 9625
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
September 28th, 2016 at 3:06:58 AM permalink
Welcome to the site!

Two threads on the same thing?

you are really asking a lot for someone to work on this, but you never know, maybe someone will be challenged

could you just point out a departure [or departures] from some other house way?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
JimLee
• Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 27, 2016
September 28th, 2016 at 4:59:38 AM permalink

as regards the departures. The two pair rules are much more weak compare to all other houseway. And the four of a kind rules are also weak compare to other houseway

Well, I spend enormous time and effort to get the houseway. Since English is not my native, even writing out the houseway is a big task for me. I appreciate anyone who can answer some of my question. But will also happy if you just join the discussion
Joeshlabotnik
• Posts: 943
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
September 28th, 2016 at 8:17:02 AM permalink
Quote: JimLee

as regards the departures. The two pair rules are much more weak compare to all other houseway. And the four of a kind rules are also weak compare to other houseway

Well, I spend enormous time and effort to get the houseway. Since English is not my native, even writing out the houseway is a big task for me. I appreciate anyone who can answer some of my question. But will also happy if you just join the discussion

Short answer: even a less-than-perfect house way will not result in a reduction of the house advantage to a great enough extent that the game becomes profitable for the player. You still have to overcome the 5% commission and losing on copies.

That's why there are so many different house ways rather than one agreed-upon optimal house way. Just about any house way is good enough for the casino to make a nice profit. Looking briefly at the house way you posted, it seems like it might be one of those house ways where the house tries to push as much as possible, to reduce the volatility of the game. That approach is often used when the house deals the game to big bettors--they feel that there's no harm in a push--they'll get the money next time. A house that usually deals to a table full of \$5 and \$10 players might use a more aggressive house way.
JimLee
• Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 27, 2016
September 28th, 2016 at 8:26:08 AM permalink
Well Thank you again for the reply.

It is a \$10 table and usually most people do not play beyond \$25. But you can banker every each round for solo player.

I play quite big, sometimes hundreds of dollars each hand. So I am not looking for really beat the dealer.

But more of to know how much will I loss in the long run on this game.
JimLee