Seahawk97
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
April 23rd, 2016 at 1:33:42 PM permalink
I need someone with advanced math knowledge to figure out the house edge on this wheel. It's an automatic wheel not a computerized screen wheel. \$10 minimum but it's only \$10 total. Any combination of inside or outside bets just has to equal \$10. So for example what is the house edge if I bet \$9.50 on red and split the 2 zeros with a \$0.50 wager? This has to reduce the normal 5.4% house edge tremendously doesn't it? Or is it just my imagination? Thanks in advance for any help.
OnceDear
• Posts: 7485
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
April 23rd, 2016 at 1:41:57 PM permalink
Quote: Seahawk97

I need someone with advanced math knowledge to figure out the house edge on this wheel. It's an automatic wheel not a computerized screen wheel. \$10 minimum but it's only \$10 total. Any combination of inside or outside bets just has to equal \$10. So for example what is the house edge if I bet \$9.50 on red and split the 2 zeros with a \$0.50 wager? This has to reduce the normal 5.4% house edge tremendously doesn't it? Or is it just my imagination? Thanks in advance for any help.

Hint. How many red numbers: How many black: How many green: What's the paytable say?
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Romes
• Posts: 5607
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:02:25 PM permalink
HI Seahawk, and welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately, you don't lower the house edge when you hedge your bets... Hedging is covering other numbers to try to protect another bet (which is what you're referring to when covering 0 and 00 for 50 cents then betting 9.50 on black). The overall expected value of your spin is the summation of all of your bets and their respective house edges. So let's look at your example:

EV(next spin of roulette) = EV(\$9.50 on black) + EV(\$0.50 on 0/00 split).

EV(\$9.50 on black) = (9.50) * House Edge = (9.5) * (-.0526) = -\$0.50

EV(\$0.50 on 0/00 split) = (.50) * House Edge = (.5) * (-.0526) = -\$0.03

So, betting \$9.50 on black, then \$0.50 on 0/00 split, your Expected Value for the next spin is EV = -\$0.50 + (-\$0.03) = -\$0.53

So how does this compare if you JUST bet \$10 on black? EV(\$10 on black) = (10) * House Edge = (10) * (-.0526) = -\$0.53... the same!

You don't lower the house edge when you hedge bets. Sorry to say it's just your imagination.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Seahawk97
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:04:19 PM permalink
That's disappointing. Maybe not a mathematical edge but is there any benefit of not having to bet the table minimum on the zeros like you normally would when you place the minimum on an outside bet?
Romes
• Posts: 5607
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:09:01 PM permalink
Quote: Seahawk97

That's disappointing. Maybe not a mathematical edge but is there any benefit of not having to bet the table minimum on the zeros like you normally would when you place the minimum on an outside bet?

No, not really =/. When 0/00 hit you'll win \$8.50 and keep your \$0.50 for the bet, so you'll have lost \$1 overall. When black hits you'll win \$9.50, but lose \$0.50 for your 0/00 split, so you'll only win \$9. To some exceedingly small extent you might be lessening your variance by lessening your losses and wins in each scenario (as opposed to just 1 table min bet)... but with this bet that's fairly negligible.

At that point though, being erroneous, if it makes you happy or you have more fun doing it, well then it doesn't hurt anything, so have fun doing it!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
mustangsally
• Posts: 2463
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: Seahawk97

So for example what is the house edge if I bet \$9.50 on red and split the 2 zeros with a \$0.50 wager?
This has to reduce the normal 5.4% house edge tremendously doesn't it?

let us see
18/38 * 9 (net 9 when a RED wins)
+
18/38 * -10 (when Black wins)
+
2/38 * -1 (0.50 *17 - 9.5 when a green wins)
= EV
and EV/10 = HE
one can complete this if so inclined

looks to "not even dent the house edge"
as an old-timer once has spoken
Quote: Seahawk97

Or is it just my imagination?

now that is worth the listen
what a voice!
I Heart Vi Hart
Seahawk97
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:19:41 PM permalink
I appreciate all the knowledge guys. I had just never come across a table where the minimum bet could be combined from inside and outside bets. For me putting \$11 on red and \$1 on zeros and showing a profit as long as it's not black is more entertaining for me although as I know now not any more advantageous. Also since it's an electronic wheel I don't have to play every spin and can pick my spots. And even with my amateur knowledge I know skipping spins is saving me money!
Deucekies
• Posts: 1457
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
April 23rd, 2016 at 2:38:15 PM permalink
Quote: Seahawk97

For me putting \$11 on red and \$1 on zeros and showing a profit as long as it's not black is more entertaining for me although as I know now not any more advantageous.

And that's all that matters. What you're doing is no worse than any other method in terms of house edge; in fact, you're able to bet less than you might on a regular game. More fun for less money is definitely good for you.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
AxelWolf