Pai Gow Poker in Jacksonville

I played a very bizarre game of pai gow poker this weekend at the Best Bet card room in Jacksonville, FL.

The game had a separate dealer and banker. The banker had a large bank of chips, and was responsible for paying winning players and collecting from losers. The dealer also had a tray of chips, but this was only for making change.

Players paid no commission on wins.

Before each hand, the house would collect a "rake" from the banker. The rake was based on the total amount of chips bet by all the players at the table on that hand. There was a table, but it looked like generally the rake was 1-2%. Most of the time that I was playing, the total at the table was between $300 and $600, which required a $6 rake.

As near as I can tell, the player is only at a disadvantage of just over 1% because the banker wins ties. The banker is roughly playing an even game, because the advantage of winning ties is offset by the rake. And the house collects the rake which pays for the table and the dealer. I was pretty shocked at this approach, as it seems it is a much better deal for the player than the standard casino pai gow poker that I am accustomed to.

Is there a set house ways? Is it written somewhere that you can evaluate it?
I can see you nearly having an advantage over weak house ways. For example, at the Wynn they never split low pairs. They play 2355667 as 66552 73. Give me a no commission game against those house ways....

Yes, they had a printed house way. I didn't examine it, but the dealer needed to refer to it once during my play. Their house way includes keeping high-low pairs together if an ace-face can be played in front. I don't recall ever encountering an "ace-face" house way before, either.

Scarlet peal split low pairs even with an ace and a face

Doesn't all of this sound like a regular game at a card room, where the house is not allowed to bank games so there are banker companies? Well, except the no commission part I guess.
I'm no math expert but regular PGP with no commission ought to be a very good deal indeed

Quote: PapaChubby

Yes, they had a printed house way. I didn't examine it, but the dealer needed to refer to it once during my play. Their house way includes keeping high-low pairs together if an ace-face can be played in front. I don't recall ever encountering an "ace-face" house way before, either.

FWIW, I have seen the Ace-Face numerous times in the last 25 years playing. Not a lot. But it's out there.

I'm just learning about how card rooms in FL are dealing various games, so I can't illuminate PGP for you (they aren't dealing it locally), but I too am finding it odd. It's been difficult figuring out what to offer them as pay tables with the banker in the game, but we're looking at it.

Quote: Konbu

Doesn't all of this sound like a regular game at a card room, where the house is not allowed to bank games so there are banker companies? Well, except the no commission part I guess.
I'm no math expert but regular PGP with no commission ought to be a very good deal indeed

Yes, it is (a regular game at a card room). It's relatively new territory here, and both the racinos and card rooms that are doing carnival games are just figuring out what they want to do and how. FL laws are different from CA laws, but it seems they are using some of the CA stuff as precidence.

Quote: PapaChubby

Yes, they had a printed house way. I didn't examine it, but the dealer needed to refer to it once during my play. Their house way includes keeping high-low pairs together if an ace-face can be played in front. I don't recall ever encountering an "ace-face" house way before, either.

This is very sensible strategy for the house, for two reasons:
1. An Ace-face is a lot stronger than an Ace-low in the two card side. An A-2 is about 49% EV, but an AK is about 65%.
2. an Ace-face two-card side is more likely to copy for the house than any other two-card side.

Just for completeness, here's another difference that I noticed with this game. There was no randomizer. Every hand was dealt out in the same order, starting from the first player position and ending with the dealer.

The Jax game is best understood in light of the of Florida politics. Poker is legal in Florida pari mutuels but banked games are not. For a long time the parimutuels did not mess with this because the State was making a huge windfall from a deal with the Seminole tribe. That deal has expired and a renewal is still stuck in the legislative process.

The poker regulators in Florida know nothing about gaming - its the same people that monitor hairdressers and plumbers. Somehow the parimutuels convinced the regulators that War, paigow, etc were all poker and not really banked games - they just have "designated player" In reality that player is a banker that works for a syndicate that is likely related to the same company that owns a lot of the games and provides the tables (shufflemaster).

The management of Best Bet (I am told) told the syndicate they would not put in the games unless Pai Gow was one of the games - but its not legal to have a real banked game or a commission in FL. So the Paigow game is a compromise made to get the other games in

The State has ordered the parameters to close all the table games but that is stuck in a lawsuit. This likely will be resolved next spring in the next legislative session where it is most likely that the Seminoles do a deal that forces the State to close the table games but between now and the the parimutuels seem to be grabbing as much as they can,