mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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January 28th, 2015 at 6:33:35 PM permalink
I'm not sure I've seen a game the average recreational player plays more poorly than UTH. Most play far too passive. The pre-flop strategy is pretty simple, it gets messy by the river decision. I would say uth but I would either purchase the basic strategy card sold by lva or print the wizard of odds sheet off to help at first on tough decisions. It's not like blackjack where virtually anyone who plays a 3:2 game is less than 2% disadvantage, people are playing this game at a 10%ish disadvantage.
Deucekies
Deucekies
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January 28th, 2015 at 7:14:05 PM permalink
Preflop strategy on UTH is pretty simple, and Wizard has made river strategy a bit more simple with his 21-outs rule. On the flop, it gets a little muddy because you need to know what straight and flush draws to bet and which ones to check.

UTH is my favorite game to play. 4CP not so much. Count me in with the camp that doesn't like the dealer getting 6 cards, even though the player wins the ties. The sixth card can only hurt the player. I'd rather have a "Blind" bet which will occasionally pay off for the player, like Crazy Four Poker.

As for Trips, I know it's not optimal to play, but at 3.5%, it's not terrible, as long as you're playing your main game as optimal as possible. There are other casino games where you're bucking a comparable edge even playing just the base game.

Speaking of Trips, you should be on the lookout for a rare paytable that pays 9:1 on the full house instead of 8:1. If you find that, the house edge is only about 1%. You'd actually like to bet heavier on that than the main game, if I remember our last discussion correctly.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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January 29th, 2015 at 8:40:29 AM permalink
I have played both, but UTH wins by a mile with me. I have little to add that the others haven't already said, except you MUST be aggressive with your 4x bet (which most players are too conservative to do) in order to take full advantage of your game. Get the simple strategy at WoO and print it out at a minimum.

People think they're being wise checking an ace or a small pair, or two picture cards offsuit; they're costing themselves huge money by doing so. The 21out rule is the finishing touch and has made the difference on whether I win or lose overall most sessions.

The other thing many people miss is that there are times when you should play the board for a push; 2 pair and a 9 or higher kicker on the board, for example, you can bet the River with pocket nothing. It's hard to remember to look for those sometimes, but they also almost always come under the 21out rule as well, so it's a good idea to make a habit of counting the outs on every river. The exceptions tend to be if the board has 4 to a flush and you don't have it, or 4 to an outside straight and you don't have it, you need to doublecheck your values. Can't remember exactly how the JG card has that broken down; I usually kind of wing those hands on other values (and probably get it wrong more than I should).
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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January 29th, 2015 at 9:55:55 AM permalink
Thanks for all the responses!
It's easy to get carried away with the bonus bets, especially if you've been on a streak or two, and forget about the low risk on the main ante game...even if it's just for a few hours of play.

I just hate getting great pairs or high cards and being eaten alive by crazy dealer hands. :) And grinding it out with rough cards.
cmc0605
cmc0605
Joined: Jul 25, 2013
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January 30th, 2015 at 1:03:45 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyComet

Thanks for all the responses!
It's easy to get carried away with the bonus bets, especially if you've been on a streak or two, and forget about the low risk on the main ante game...even if it's just for a few hours of play.

I just hate getting great pairs or high cards and being eaten alive by crazy dealer hands. :) And grinding it out with rough cards.



It definitely stinks when you get pocket A's, and the dealer pulls out a straight or two pair on the final card, but that's the game...it'll happen in 4CP a lot too. But you also win more than you think in UTH on "low hands" against a dealer no qualify or whatever.
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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January 30th, 2015 at 2:17:07 PM permalink
I only play the free games at WoO. UTH is a much more "playable" game IMHO. The only bug is the rule that if Dealer DNQ, and I lose, I lose the Raise and the Blind. IMHO it should be the raise only: push the Ante and Blind. That might cost the house 0.2% at worst, and the blind bet can compensate. /MHO
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Deucekies
Deucekies
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January 30th, 2015 at 4:59:51 PM permalink
Quote: 98Clubs

I only play the free games at WoO. UTH is a much more "playable" game IMHO. The only bug is the rule that if Dealer DNQ, and I lose, I lose the Raise and the Blind. IMHO it should be the raise only: push the Ante and Blind. That might cost the house 0.2% at worst, and the blind bet can compensate. /MHO



Remember that an optimal player gets the EoR down to only 0.5% though, so 0.2% is a big chunk of it. And I'd imagine it's more than 0.2% difference.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
98Clubs
98Clubs
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January 30th, 2015 at 8:18:17 PM permalink
Well, I did do some number crunching on this based on the WoO breakdown. It larger than I thought at 0.5676%.
As you point out the game is a Lo HA already per unit. Changing that rule would require substanstial Blind payout changes.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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February 9th, 2015 at 3:17:42 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs


People think they're being wise checking an ace or a small pair, or two picture cards offsuit; they're costing themselves huge money by doing so. The 21out rule is the finishing touch and has made the difference on whether I win or lose overall most sessions.
.



Do you have an easy technique for this? Getting my brain to calculate the outs after a few drinks and/or some table adrenaline is difficult... !
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 9th, 2015 at 6:24:55 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyComet

Do you have an easy technique for this? Getting my brain to calculate the outs after a few drinks and/or some table adrenaline is difficult... !



1st off: if you have a pocket pair or a hidden pair (you've paired the board) or better at this point, you're in and don't need to count the outs.

No pair board is 15 outs, plus 4 outs for every card above your kicker you can't see.

1 pair board is 11 outs, plus 4 outs for every card above your kicker you can't see.

So for example, if you have a Queen kicker, and the board is all lower singles, there are 23 outs (4 aces, 4 kings, 15 cards that can pair with 3 for each single) and you should fold.

If there's a pair on the board, or an Ace+King in the singles, there are 21 or less outs, and you should bet.

Shortcut that's more conservative: with a queen, the board should have 1 pair and 1 higher card minimum or you should fold.

EXCEPT: don't bet her if the board has 4 to an outside straight, or 4 to a flush. (too many additional outs, with 8 for a straight and 9 for a flush). A gutshot (inside) straight should be ok, but it's razor thin and the dealer will fill those more than you think they should.

If you have a king and still haven't bet it (Kings you bet 4x with a 5 or better), he's a good bet EXCEPT for as above.

If you have a Jack, I recommend a pair plus 2 higher cards on the board minimum before you bet him, again EXCEPT as above.

If the board has 2 pair with a low card, or 3OAK with 1 low and 1 higher card, bet with a 9 (razor thin) or higher (better).

If the board has 2 pair with a 10 or better, or 3OAK with 2 off cards of 9 or better, or any 5 card poker hand, bet with anything. You want a push and hope the dealer has to play the board as well.

Grosjean and the Wiz's strategies both go into more detail than this (and probably have some small differences), but this is what's working for me. The whole idea is, anything that's on the board can't be in the dealer's hand working against you.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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