Riva
Riva
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October 21st, 2014 at 2:50:48 PM permalink
Quote: Romes



I would think you'd make the maximum outside bet something like $25. This wouldn't even come close to a single number payout and you still carry quite an edge on it, thus you're making more money per spin.

EDIT:

My thoughts exactly on the 5%+...



So, let's see if I got this right..... The sign would say:

Outside: $5 minimum per-spot / $25 maximum per-spot

Inside; $5 minimum (any $ combo) $5 maximum per-bet

???
UCivan
UCivan
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October 22nd, 2014 at 2:19:49 PM permalink
Quote: Riva

That comes from 12 years of Catholic schools. The nuns told us that math was not important, only religion and English were important! :)

Actually gaming math only works if and only if the game is played repeatedly for a long time (i.e. many many hands). How long is your event? If too short, the computed HE may never show. Think about this: every new casino games, all with reasonable HE derived by "math experts", must go through 1-3 months of field trial to find out if the game could REALLY "make enough money". If the jackpot get hit on the first day, the game is out. Don't have to feel bad about your math. Just use the traditional, popular, proven games and follow the well-known, simple rules, then you have a higher chance of getting good returns. If you're not keep your casino for a long time, any positive HE is good. Your math is fine.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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October 22nd, 2014 at 2:40:34 PM permalink
Quote: Riva

Hmmmm? Interesting.

Again, my gut tells me this might add a new layer of complexity to the program for our dealers with $10 outside and $5 inside. As I said, to me, outside bets are just trading dollars irrespective of the amount of the wager. Most of our money made is on the inside.

Not to argue, I'm looking at this from a player's perspective as well. It's very easy to grasp a statement that says "all bets $5" or, "all bets $10". They know exactly what they are getting in to without having them ponder why we allow $10 on outside bets and just $5 on inside. Having to explain things a zillion times per-night takes time--and "time" is our most precious commodity.



Well if your dealers can't handle it then they can't handle it. Roulette is a complicated game. But wouldn't you have your best dealers on the high limit game anyway? Do you really feel that your BEST dealers couldn't handle "$5 on the inside $10 on the outside".
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Riva
Riva
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October 22nd, 2014 at 3:09:58 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Well if your dealers can't handle it then they can't handle it. Roullette is a complicated game. But wouldn't you have your best dealers on the high limit game anyway? Do you really feel that your BEST dealers couldn't handle "$5 on the inside $10 on the outside".



Our very best dealers are on roulette and craps. In fact, we rent pro dealers to handle some of the craps. Now that we have yet another 14' craps table donated to the school, we'll have to rent/train even more. It's worth it in clover though. These tables are virtual ATM's.

I am not having difficulty with the concept of allowing bigger wagers on the outside. Many of our players are newbies to roulette and we actually have to explain what an outside bet is versus an inside bet (honest).

Then, we have to tell them that there is a $3 minimum bets on the outside--for each spot--up to a maximum of $5 per-spot.

Then, we have to tell them that the minimum on the inside is also $3 however, it can be spread over any combination of bets, so long as $3 is in action.

Then, we have to tell them that no single bet on the inside can be greater than $5.

That's a lot of "splain'n".
Romes
Romes
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October 23rd, 2014 at 7:26:59 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

So, let's see if I got this right..... The sign would say:

Outside: $5 minimum per-spot / $25 maximum per-spot

Inside; $5 minimum (any $ combo) $5 maximum per-bet

???


Yes, something of this nature. Either way as your post after this one described you'll have to explain the game to someone who's a complete newbie. Doesn't matter what your denominations are you have to tell them the same info about inside vs outside; so that should have little bearing on your limits.

I think it's crappy that you're not letting people actually play the inside though. The way you have it set up (5 min 5 max) you don't have to explain spreading your action around because you can't. You have to bet one $5 chip on a number, line, or corner. If it's not too complicated for your dealers I would think you should go $1 min $5 max on the inside so people can take 5 single dollar chips and spread them out on the inside. Anyone who plays roulette normally won't like your game because it's not really roulette on the inside.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Riva
Riva
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October 23rd, 2014 at 8:06:48 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Yes, something of this nature. Either way as your post after this one described you'll have to explain the game to someone who's a complete newbie. Doesn't matter what your denominations are you have to tell them the same info about inside vs outside; so that should have little bearing on your limits.

I think it's crappy that you're not letting people actually play the inside though. The way you have it set up (5 min 5 max) you don't have to explain spreading your action around because you can't. You have to bet one $5 chip on a number, line, or corner. If it's not too complicated for your dealers I would think you should go $1 min $5 max on the inside so people can take 5 single dollar chips and spread them out on the inside. Anyone who plays roulette normally won't like your game because it's not really roulette on the inside.



Not sure I fully understand....Currently, on the outside, we have a $3 minimum / $5 maximum--PER SPOT. So if they wanted to bet say "red", the minimum bet would be $3. If they wanted say red & even, they would have $6 in play.

As for the inside, it's the same thing, specifically: $3 minimum /$5 maximum. However, the wagers on the inside can be $1, just so long as $3 is in action. As for the $5 maximum, no single bet can be greater than $5. However, a player could have 37 $5 bets on the inside and we don't care.

Up until a few years ago, we simply set any/all bets at $1 / $5, either inside or out. You had 20 players all betting $1 chips all over the place and-they were all casino chips, not unique colored roulette chips. It was madness. The, one day I had about 3 hours to kill and went to the MGM Grand. It was there that I learned of the inside/outside betting structure and immediately put it in place at our events. It immediately quadrupled our profits on roulette to the point where we built a second 20' table. http://i62.tinypic.com/289zonc.jpg And, as mentioned, we now have 3 roulette ensembles.
Romes
Romes
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October 23rd, 2014 at 8:22:56 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

...As for the inside, it's the same thing, specifically: $3 minimum /$5 maximum. However, the wagers on the inside can be $1, just so long as $3 is in action. As for the $5 maximum, no single bet can be greater than $5. However, a player could have 37 $5 bets on the inside and we don't care.


Ahh, I'm not sure where I thought I read that 5 min / 5 max on the inside was single bets. This, of course, is much better and more considered "normal." My apologies if I misread something.

Quote: Riva

Up until a few years ago, we simply set any/all bets at $1 / $5, either inside or out. You had 20 players all betting $1 chips all over the place and-they were all casino chips, not unique colored roulette chips. It was madness. The, one day I had about 3 hours to kill and went to the MGM Grand. It was there that I learned of the inside/outside betting structure and immediately put it in place at our events. It immediately quadrupled our profits on roulette to the point where we built a second 20' table. http://i62.tinypic.com/289zonc.jpg And, as mentioned, we now have 3 roulette ensembles.


Yeah from the beginning of the thread I thought you had it set up 'fairly' well. I was just more confused why you'd allow someone to bet $5 on a single number ($120 max payout for your 24-1 odds), but you would limit any PER SPOT outside bet to $5 max. If you're willing to pay $120 on the inside, the outside bets carry more than a 5% advantage for the house so you should let the outside betters go higher... This is when I suggested perhaps $25 on the outside. This would absolutely make you more money in the long run, or "by the math."
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Riva
Riva
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October 23rd, 2014 at 9:19:32 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Ahh, I'm not sure where I thought I read that 5 min / 5 max on the inside was single bets. This, of course, is much better and more considered "normal." My apologies if I misread something.


Yeah from the beginning of the thread I thought you had it set up 'fairly' well. I was just more confused why you'd allow someone to bet $5 on a single number ($120 max payout for your 24-1 odds), but you would limit any PER SPOT outside bet to $5 max. If you're willing to pay $120 on the inside, the outside bets carry more than a 5% advantage for the house so you should let the outside betters go higher... This is when I suggested perhaps $25 on the outside. This would absolutely make you more money in the long run, or "by the math."



Actually, I did suggest earlier making everything on the inside a $5 min/max wager. On second thought, I feel this may be too steep for our typical player who are more comfortable making five $1 wagers on roulette versus one $5 wager. Most enter the room purchasing about $50 in chips and hope for the best.

All that said, I think our new 9' table is a good place to test this out without changing anything at the two 20' tables. Specifically, keeping with a "high roller" theme, the outside would read:

$5 minimum /$25 maximum (per spot)

The inside would read

$5 minimum (any combination) / $5 maximum any single bet.

If there are better words to describe this, please suggest.
Dieter
Dieter
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October 24th, 2014 at 8:27:28 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

However, a player could have 37 $5 bets on the inside and we don't care.



I don't know about don't care, but if I had people wanting to place that bet, I'd take their action. Giddily.

("Hmm... do I get to keep $185 of their dollars, or only $60?")
May the cards fall in your favor.
Riva
Riva
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October 24th, 2014 at 9:02:57 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

I don't know about don't care, but if I had people wanting to place that bet, I'd take their action. Giddily.

("Hmm... do I get to keep $185 of their dollars, or only $60?")



Oh, we're happy when people play the inside. Strangely enough, at our games, it's very rare for 2 people to put a chip on the same number straight up. Superstition? Maybe they feel that the spot is "taken"? Who knows! In any event, when a straight up number hits, typically it's only one $125 payout.

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