Ultimate Texas Hold'em strategy when I know other's cards?

Hi,
I've found in wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/ the best strategy for Ultimate Texas Hold'em, but I would like to know how to adapt it when is possible to know the cards of other's players and how could change the house edge. I would like to know it because I stayed in a casino where the croupiers didn't warned me when me and my friends where seeing our cards. So the question is how to play if we are three friends and is possible to see our cards (how I have to play, how has to play my friend n. 1 and my friend n. 2), and how could change the house edge in this situation?
Sorry for my bad english.
Thanks
Stefano

Quote: stefanin0

Hi,
I've found in wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/ the best strategy for Ultimate Texas Hold'em, but I would like to know how to adapt it when is possible to know the cards of other's players and how could change the house edge. I would like to know it because I stayed in a casino where the croupiers didn't warned me when me and my friends where seeing our cards. So the question is how to play if we are three friends and is possible to see our cards (how I have to play, how has to play my friend n. 1 and my friend n. 2), and how could change the house edge in this situation?
Sorry for my bad english.
Thanks
Stefano

It turns out that it's not worth that much.

A friend of mine did some math for this. I don't remember the exact numbers but, basically, the issue is that the reason that you are raising big with your high cards is not that when they pair they tend to win, but because they often win unimproved.

Basically, because you don't need to make a hand to win, it doesn't really matter much.

On the other hand, the information is VERY valuable in a game like MS Stud, where you are paid for making a hand.

It leads to a marginal adjustment and leads to a moderate reduction of the house edge but not an advantage.

http://discountgambling.net/2010/01/15/practical-collusion-for-ultimate-texas-holdem/

Oh, wow, my friend wasted a lot of time doing that math.

But, yeah, that basically confirms my info. Really not worth much.

Dealer errors, on the other hand...

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Dealer errors, on the other hand...

Or player errors...
"Hey man, your'e not playin your trips bet?" "Nope, don't have the money. It's all yours, same with the blind bet, 50 to 1 bonus for the royal." "Cool, man. Thanks!!!!!!"

Quote: RogerKint

Or player errors...
"Hey man, your'e not playin your trips bet?" "Nope, don't have the money. It's all yours, same with the blind bet, 50 to 1 bonus for the royal." "Cool, man. Thanks!!!!!!"

lol!!!

Have you actually managed this?

Thanks to all for the answers;
Do you think that in that situation the house edge is also > 0 or the player has an advantage, even though minimum?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

lol!!!

Have you actually managed this?

Well the $5 bj game is full. If they wanna back-bet my blind, who am I to stop them...

Quote: stefanin0

Thanks to all for the answers;
Do you think that in that situation the house edge is also > 0 or the player has an advantage, even though minimum?

Seeing other players cards will not give you an advantage. The difference to house edge is small.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Seeing other players cards will not give you an advantage. The difference to house edge is small.

And in practice, I'd say allowing players to look at each other's cards dramatically increases the house edge, because people with great preflop hands chicken out when they see one out gone.

Go to http://www.propokertools.com/simulations

Enter A2 (your hand) on hand 1 and ** on hand 2 (dealer) for a random hand. Then run the simulation. A2 should be 55.5% winner.

Now click dead cards and add in an A (Ace) and run it again. A2 is still a 53.2% favorite over a random hand.

Enter 66 (your hand) and **. 6's are 63% favorite.
Add in a dead 6 and they're still 59% favorite.

Dead cards don't matter.

Excellent tool, BTLWI.

It looks as though you might want to back off with your pocket 3s if there's a 3 gone, and A2 if you see TWO aces gone.

It's definitely worth +EV for certain hands. The Discount Gambling link above explains in depth that it's only really useful for small pairs and borderline 4x raise hands which then become checking hands (He lists J8s, JTo, Q6s, Q8o, K2s, K5o). Most hands aren't affected. Pocket 5s and higher stand up on their own. 22 - 44 can be adjusted for based upon how many players you get input from, and how many matching outs are gone.

Generally, you need a lot of cooperative players (And of course a casino that allows discussion of cards) to see any decent change in EV for affected hands. Every now and then I can find a full table where the bosses don't care if cards get compared before decisions are made (One strip casino in particular is extremely lenient). It's not often that you'll have an affected hand and also have neighbors cards which will force an adjustment to your play. It's more helpful in my experience for going into a 4x raise with a little more confidence that you'll pair up.

The applications aren't extremely common, but no +EV is a bad +EV right?

Quote: BTLWI

Go to http://www.propokertools.com/simulations

Looks like they have a desktop version as well.

PokerStove is another excellent tool. There's an Android version of it, which is perfect for simulations on the go.