Couple of remarkable Baccarat shoes for you mathheads

Thought I would share two shoes encountered in the last 24 hours. I choose these two particular shoes because as a long time Bacc' player, I find both rather acutely strange for different reasons. For you purists you may want to comment (incidentally I am not somebody who sees patterns in cloud formations and also appreciate the possible combinations that can be produced by an 8 deck game, heard the 'organized chaos' theories).

First shoe; I post this because I haven't seen anything like it in 10 years of playing, previous longest run of repeating two's was about 16 hands.

BB
PP
BB
PP
BB < finally followed on them on the 2nd B)
PP
BB
PP
BB
PP
B
P
B
PPP (then the shoes just produces what you expect from a Bacc' shoe). I distinctly recall somebody in another venue who parlayed £1000 into over £20,000 by coming to the table at the right time by following the two's, it is not part of my game, yet a missed opportunity, what can yer do, you can't cover everything.

Shoe #2 (this blew me away for different reasons, which I will explain in a later post).

To any non-Bacc player, it may look like any other run of the mill normal Bacc' shoe, but it isn't really (or is it?), I state categorically NO.

Organized chaos in a game of chance!!!!

(Personally I could not believe what I was seeing / transpiring, feel free to tell it's all random prior hands mean zilch, gamblers fallacy etc).

BBB
P
B
PPPP
B
PPP
B
PP
B
PPP
B
PPPP
B
P
BBB
PP
BBB
P
BB (I sort another table after this shoe, as I was feeling spooked after over 20hrs of play).

(Ties omitted).

Repeating 2's are very common on a roulette wheel. They
aren't common in bac because it's not true random, it's
kinda sorta random. Thanks for the post though, it reminds
me why I only play bac when I'm bored and want to impress
myself that I can beat such a dopey game..

I assume that you are impressed with the pattern, so things happen, unless you are in a woodo art I can't see much meaning, next time try zodiac signs.

The second shoe is remarkable & extremely unique for another reason, I'm waiting to see if anybody can spot why.

Quote: egalite

I'm waiting to see if anybody can spot why.

Be careful what you wish for. We may hear from gr8player any time now. lol...

Quote: Beethoven9th

Be careful what you wish for. We may hear from gr8player any time now. lol...

Nar he will just rattle on about "new tops" & parlaying, like he knew in advance what the shoe was going to do.

IMO you can't play a shoe retrospectively and I'm sick of idiots at the tables pointing out trends of prior results like they have some mystical significance.

Quote: EvenBob

Repeating 2's are very common on a roulette wheel. They
aren't common in bac because it's not true random, it's
kinda sorta random. Thanks for the post though, it reminds
me why I only play bac when I'm bored and want to impress
myself that I can beat such a dopey game..

You have that "arse about face", with 2's being common in Baccarat and not so common from my observation of Red & Black. Sure you can beat Baccarat, so this is why you don't play it, because you don't want to take the cash, right?

Much easier game to beat is no limit hold'em. Look for the table where players collude, usually bunch of kids, portray yourself as an innocent lamb, watch for signs as in movie 21, they"tell" you what cards they got, the rest is history.

Quote: egalite

Sure you can beat Baccarat, so this is why you don't play it, because you don't want to take the cash, right?

I don't play it because I don't like the way
the casino lets the Asians break the rules
and pounces on everybody else. And bac
takes too long, I'm in and out of roulette
in half the time. It's all about hit rates..

Quote: EvenBob

I'm in and out of roulette
in half the time.

That's because your play the ultimate sucker game and you money is gone before you know it.

Quote: Thermos

That's because your play the ultimate sucker game and you money is gone before you know it.

Not quite..

Quote: EvenBob

Not quite..

Quite, unless you're playing single-zero with en prison. Otherwise, it's sucker city baby.

Quote: Thermos

Quite, unless you're playing single-zero with en prison. Otherwise, it's sucker city baby.

It's not for you, stay away from it would be my advice.

Quote: egalite

Nar he will just rattle on about "new tops" & parlaying, like he knew in advance what the shoe was going to do.

Nah, no "new tops" to speak of....

....but that's one helluva "P-dom" in that shoe, and, make no mistake of it, I'd have killed it with full parlays galore.

Doms are my favorite trend play. Frankly, they're everyone's favorite trend play. Why? Because there is simply nothing easier than keeping your money up on the same circle for clusters of wins....it is, quite frankly, the main reason one would choose to play any EC game in the first place.

And, my friend, rest assured, it's got rather little to do with "knowing in advance what the shoe was going to do". It's got alot more to do with having both the patience and the discipline to await these sorts of trending opportunities where we can, once again, "kill" it.

Trends happen. Will you be there for them? That depends on your objective, doesn't it? If you're there to gamble, well, by all means, put your money up. The casino will love you all the more for it. BUUUTTT if you're there because you're "shopping for a decent (read: potentially-profitable) trend", well, in that case, you've got to await to be triggered into it and then ride it for all it's worth. Trends happen. Will you be there for them?

Quote: gr8player

Nah, no "new tops" to speak of....

....but that's one helluva "P-dom" in that shoe, and, make no mistake of it, I'd have killed it with full parlays galore.

Doms are my favorite trend play. Frankly, they're everyone's favorite trend play. Why? Because there is simply nothing easier than keeping your money up on the same circle for clusters of wins....it is, quite frankly, the main reason one would choose to play any EC game in the first place.

And, my friend, rest assured, it's got rather little to do with "knowing in advance what the shoe was going to do". It's got alot more to do with having both the patience and the discipline to await these sorts of trending opportunities where we can, once again, "kill" it.

Trends happen. Will you be there for them? That depends on your objective, doesn't it? If you're there to gamble, well, by all means, put your money up. The casino will love you all the more for it. BUUUTTT if you're there because you're "shopping for a decent (read: potentially-profitable) trend", well, in that case, you've got to await to be triggered into it and then ride it for all it's worth. Trends happen. Will you be there for them?

Thankfully we are back on topic, besides the cluster of P wins, your not seeing it are you?

FYI I treat it all as a business, I don't lack patience or discipline unless I've been playing for 20+ hrs, then that becomes a risk. Anyway like I said in the OP the 2nd shoe is quite remarkable, I don't recall seeing anything like this in the last 5 years (I've played 10000's of shoes in this time). The shoe is nuts, way off the scale for something I track/monitor and attack, so due to a combination of the dealer and paranoia I moved to another table. It brings into question, does random have any limits, where are all the smart brainiac's on this site? Thus far nobody has spotted what makes this shoe unique and to my eyes "unreal".

When I'm at the tables, I rarely look at the score board, I pay scant attention to prior results because IMO I view prior hands as a load of nonsense in any game of non-correlated outcomes & it becomes tiresome listening to idiots telling me otherwise, however occasionally when I do glance at the electronic score boards I might spot something, this shoe blew me out the water, why?

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There is nothing remarkable about this. There is only a finite number of ways the 416 cards can be arranged in the shoe no matter how astronomical it is. One of those will be dealt. Now knowing which one of these billions upon billions of shoes that will be dealt before hand WOULD BE remarkable.

Or edge sorting.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Or edge sorting.

Phil Ivey would be proud :)

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There is nothing remarkable about this. There is only a finite number of ways the 416 cards can be arranged in the shoe no matter how astronomical it is. One of those will be dealt. Now knowing which one of these billions upon billions of shoes that will be dealt before hand WOULD BE remarkable.

Depends how you are looking at it.

I called them "SP's" short for symmetrical patterns. An "SP" occurs when a portion of a shoe reverse mirrors itself. I apply a certain criteria, such as if the pattern consists only of 1's and 2's, then ignore as these are too frequent, also an "SP" must consist of a minimum of 12 hands.

So I'm playing my own game, the shoe is up to here;

BBB
P
B
PPPP
B
PPP
B
PP
B
PPP
B
PPP < I win that 3rd P, but I also notice that an "14 hand SP" has formed. It is a trigger opportunity for me and you will have to take my word on it, that 90% of the time, I usually win a bet within 3 hands.

To see the "SP" you have to look back and note the pivot point. "SP's" can form after any number of hands, in this particular case, it starts at a 14 hand count.

BBB (start of shoe)
P
B
PPPP
B
PPP
B
PP << pivot point
B
PPP
B
PPPP (after 3rd P win, I start betting against the shoe reverse imaging itself, because I don't believe this so called random, will continue behaving this way)
B
P (okay, so I've lost 3 bets in a row, stop betting but record a few more hands, to see when this ends)
BBB
PP (the reverse imaging of itself, ends because there are no hands prior to shoe starting with a triple B)
BBB
P
BB

So looking back at this, at the occurrence of the double P, the shoe reverse mirrored itself consisting of a 30 hand sequence. For somebody who monitors and bets against these rare events, I don't ever recall seeing a 30 hand "SP" ever. Why do I even bet or monitor them, simply because in my book they don't occur often. I apply a criteria before acting, generally such moves generally prove fruitful. I also believe for some reason (not sure why), random has it's limits, yeah I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but ever seen a Baccarat shoe reverse itself from the middle of a shoe? While it is possible, I don't think it would ever happen. Freak occurrences like this may happen once in 5 years. I am thinking maybe, maybe it's time to give these "SP's" a wide berth & stop looking at the electronic score board.

One other point, about Baccarat being akin to a coin flip, I don't subscribe to that way of thinking either. You could flip a fair headed coin all day before you got 10 sides the same, whereas in the game of Baccarat, a streak of 10 or greater can occur once or a few times inside 250 hands.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Whether it's flipping a coin, dealing baccarat, or dealing out a five card poker hand, anything and everything is possible.

Sure everything and anything is possible, however the above 30 hand SP is too perfect, like nothing I've ever witnessed before. Personally I don't expect "random" to behave like that.

Quote: EvenBob

It's not for you, stay away from it would be my advice.

Nonsense. You are just like Dostoyevsky ... except of course that he could write.

Quote: egalite

Sure everything and anything is possible, however the above 30 hand SP is too perfect, like nothing I've ever witnessed before. Personally I don't expect "random" to behave like that.

This suggests you don't understand random.

deleted

Quote: egalite

Sure everything and anything is possible, however the above 30 hand SP is too perfect, like nothing I've ever witnessed before. Personally I don't expect "random" to behave like that.

Even though I don't consider dealt down decks to be really
random, I suppose anything can happen. That's why you
hate roulette, John, true random bugs the crap out of you
so you blame it all on sharp shooting dealers.

Quote: Thermos

Nonsense.

No, really. Roulette is not for you.

deleted

Quote: EvenBob

No, really. Roulette is not for you.

Correct. It is for suckers ... and Europeans.

Quote: Thermos

Correct. It is for suckers ... and Europeans.

And definitely not for you. I think you're getting it..

Quote: thecesspit

This suggests you don't understand random.

+1

The words "personnally" and "I've witnessed" make it clear he does not know what randomness is. He makes up his own romantic view. "Too perfect" is also funny; how do you define "perfect"? How can something be "more" perfect or "too" perfect?

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Do you know how many ways I could set up the cards from an 8 deck shoe to give the same results as those 30 hands? We as humans see unusual results and somehow think they never have happened before. Just as a video poker player is "lucky" to get a dealt royal flush in hearts but "unlucky" to get dealt 2d, 4h, 6c, 8s, 10d when both is equally likely to happen.

I did have an ulterior motive going into detail regarding that shoe and these so called "SP's", which I have tracked and played for years. I was looking for WoV members to debunk the thought that random shouldn't be this perfect, when indeed there is no logical / rationale reason why it can't be.

Thereby giving me the excuse I was looking for to finally confine this occasional trigger to bed. All I was after was confirmation on what was slowing becoming fairly obvious and an excuse to stop acting upon prior patterns / results period.