Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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January 1st, 2013 at 11:11:52 AM permalink
No.
Even if the players played well, - the game itself is solid, and will make money.
Before shufflemaster released the game, they reviewed the math and all scenarios of play.

But to project that the game would fail or is failing flies in the face of the real world results.

There are casinos in places where strong local players who know the game and play well, enjoy the game without taking it down, without killing it.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
UCivan
UCivan
Joined: Sep 3, 2011
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January 1st, 2013 at 11:13:23 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I said, if players played well, the game would not make much money.

The genius of the game is "Players will never play well or right." Roger Snow wins here.
UCivan
UCivan
Joined: Sep 3, 2011
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January 1st, 2013 at 11:16:32 AM permalink
Quote: UCivan

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I said, if players played well, the game would not make much money.

The genius of the game is "Players will never play well or right." Roger Snow wins here.

My point is if players play it right, the hold is about 23%, now that most players do not play it right, so the hold is over 32%. BTW, in Thunder Valley, CA, the hold is also 32% since day one.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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January 1st, 2013 at 11:17:30 AM permalink
Quote: UCivan

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I said, if players played well, the game would not make much money.

The genius of the game is "Players will never play well or right." Roger Snow wins here.



The game has an adequate house edge no matter who plays it. A Theoretical table Hold of 23% is strong, and a real world table hold of 33% is strong, also. Weak play adds more house profit. Shufflemaster didn't shoot themselves in the foot with this game. Phil Ivey can't take make it a loser for the casino.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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January 1st, 2013 at 11:23:17 AM permalink
Quote: UCivan

How did you [Miplet] get "0.10379838612368 antes"?



Miplet did it by this by summing the house edge losses between properly playing the strong "4x" hands lost by this strategy (of 88 down to J10) at 4x, versus checking on these same hands. Click on this "show table" and sum all the ANTE ["Anti"] column returns, excluding hands 99 and above.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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January 1st, 2013 at 5:06:39 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No.
Even if the players played well, - the game itself is solid, and will make money.
Before shufflemaster released the game, they reviewed the math and all scenarios of play.

But to project that the game would fail or is failing flies in the face of the real world results.

There are casinos in places where strong local players who know the game and play well, enjoy the game without taking it down, without killing it.



I don't believe for a second that there are casinos where most people play UTH well.

As for real-world results ... we dn't have any for the situation where most people play it well. Poor players do not pad the house's results, they quadruple them. To assume that the house's profits would not fall if people went from playing with a 10+% HE to a 2.3% HE flies in the face of simple arithmetic and common sense.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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January 1st, 2013 at 5:37:15 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Mission146
Mission146 
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 1st, 2013 at 5:42:46 PM permalink
Did they at least let you buy the Raise this time?
Vultures can't be choosers.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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January 1st, 2013 at 5:48:55 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Mission146
Mission146 
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 1st, 2013 at 5:55:25 PM permalink
That's crazy! What is he saving the money for, Roulette? What better position can you ask for?

I've only played UTH (at least, I think it was UTH) once in a live game and got PO'ed when a Flopped Straight got beaten by a dealer Flush that was picked up on the River. It made me so angry to lose on that hand that I haven't looked at that table since! I started out with K-Q, suited, and made the 4x Raise, even though I had no idea whether or not that was correct. (It was)
Vultures can't be choosers.

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