Ultimate Texas Hold'em

I would like to start off saying that most people who view this site and the Wizard's original website are more inclined to understand the math behind many of the games which they choose to play. We are the ones who are ALWAYS ridiculed for not playing side bets, playing modest amounts and usually do far better than most other people at the tables. Simply put, we trust the math. However, this game REALLY scares me in this regard. I have played enough in the poker room and home games to see that jack/10 off suit or queen/8 simply do not get the job done!

I understand the idea why these hands should take the full 4-times bet, the game simply is a one-to-one match up with the dealer. However, I just can't take that chance on some starting hands without seeing the flop. I only choose to play the 4-times down with those hands with a 3-2 advantage or better. Wizard, how much additional advantage am I giving the house by playing this strategy?

I have seen people playing pretty close to the optimum strategy and get killed by the results (again, jack/10 doesn't hold up that often). If anyone has successes or horror stories by playing the "correct way", I would love to hear it.

Quote: 13Doc13

I would like to start off saying that most people who view this site and the Wizard's original website are more inclined to understand the math behind many of the games which they choose to play. We are the ones who are ALWAYS ridiculed for not playing side bets, playing modest amounts and usually do far better than most other people at the tables. Simply put, we trust the math. However, this game REALLY scares me in this regard. I have played enough in the poker room and home games to see that jack/10 off suit or queen/8 simply do not get the job done!

I understand the idea why these hands should take the full 4-times bet, the game simply is a one-to-one match up with the dealer. However, I just can't take that chance on some starting hands without seeing the flop. I only choose to play the 4-times down with those hands with a 3-2 advantage or better. Wizard, how much additional advantage am I giving the house by playing this strategy?

I have seen people playing pretty close to the optimum strategy and get killed by the results (again, jack/10 doesn't hold up that often). If anyone has successes or horror stories by playing the "correct way", I would love to hear it.

I don't know the best strategy for the game, but here is my thought: If you want to deviate from the optimum, the time to do it is when you are in bad position. Stick with it in good position like 'last to speak and no one has opened yet'. Perhaps you've factored that already.

UTH is my game of choice.

First of all, before you do anything else, check out http://www.discountgambling.net

Back? You probably understand things a lot more. To shorten things, let me just say that J-10o and Q-8o are negative e.v. starting hands. The reason you bet them 4x is because you lose less in the long run. Kinda like splitting 8's in blackjack. Mr. Discountgambling gives you some good collusion strategies for playing these types of hands, too.

Just have faith in the strategy, and you'll be fine. I put in a lot of hours at this game, and do quite well. In fact, I just played it today.

I will give you one small horror story that happened to me last night. I don't totally follow this strategy (mainly because I don't quite have it all memorized yet, and partly because the casino I'm playing at-Boot Hill in Kansas-allows you to play either 3x or 4x at first, so on the more marginal hands I just bet 3x), but I did get pocket aces twice and bet 4x both times. Both times I ended up losing, once to a full house and once to 2 pair. This ended up making me skittish about betting 4x or 3x or ace with smaller cards, and I ended up not winning quite as much money on some hands that should have been bet before the flop. I will definitely memorize the strategy before going again, and make sure to play it no matter what, as I do believe in the long run you're better off. And no, I never bet the trips anymore, especially since this casino only pays 4-1 on straight instead of 5-1.

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I will tell everyone a story my dealer told me the other night. He had a guy actually betting blind the whole night (in other words, he would automaticaly bet before the flop without even looking at the cards-he was betting 3x instead of 4x-and was betting the table maximum, which is $50 on the ante and blind and therefore $150 on the play.) He ended up winning something like $3000 playing this way. I don't remember for sure if the dealer said he played the trips or not, but I don't think so. No way I could ever play without looking at the cards, but that shows you that even the dumb plays get lucky sometimes. It also makes me wonder how much he could have won if he had played properly and either bet later or folded some of his bad hands.

Quote: Lhornbk70

And no, I never bet the trips anymore, especially since this casino only pays 4-1 on straight instead of 5-1.

Actually, the best paytable is 50-40-30-9-7-4(straight)-3

If you are lucky enough to find that table, play it hard. The only places I've seen this schedule was MGM Grand Detroit and Paris/Bally's Las Vegas (both of them offered it).

Quote: Tiltpoul

Actually, the best paytable is 50-40-30-9-7-4(straight)-3

If you are lucky enough to find that table, play it hard.

Why? It's still a 0.9% house edge. Great for a side bet, but still an overall loser. Also, I'm not sure, but I don't think MGM Detroit still offers it.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This games gets quite funny when you are hole-carding it and raise 4x with 3/2 offsuit then get a "lucky" win with only a pair of 2's. You get some wierd looks when your cards are turned over and the others see this.

I understand if you don't want to reveal any of your "secrets" here, but I am curious: assuming you can see both dealer cards, is the correct strategy simply to go in 4x on any hand that beats the dealer right out of the box? For example to raise on 2/3 I have to assume that you knew the dealer had 2/7 or 2/8 offsuit.

(edit: silly me, I just realized you said you won with a pair of deuces...make that "you knew the dealer had 3/4 or 3/8 off suit." If that's the case, have you worked out your own strategy to use when you can see one or both of the dealer's cards?)

Actually, in UTH 32o is the worst starting hand E.V.-wise. Even 72o or 82o have a better expectation. So, I'm also curious why he would bet that 4x in that situation, unless the hole cards that he saw were the community cards.