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3 members have voted

Wizard
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January 11th, 2023 at 6:17:36 PM permalink
I was wondering today what happened to total season wins bets for Buffalo and Cincinnati.

It's my understand that both teams decided to treat the game against each other, on Jan 2, as if it never happened. Events happened the following week that made it such that the outcome of their game, if played after all, wouldn't affect the playoffs.

Even without that game, both teams easily had enough wins to cover the over side of their total season win bets:

The line on total season wins for Buffalo was 11.5 and they won 13.
The line on total season wins for Cincy was 9.5 and they won 12.

Not that it's relevant to this situation, but in the event of a tie, neither team is awarded a win nor half a win.

According to the LVRJ, the South Point refunded both under and over bets. Meanwhile, the MGM paid the overs and refunded the unders.

It just goes to show that you should be careful about throwing away what you assume are losing tickets. I personally have a bin of many hundreds of losing tickets, going back decades. Not that I keep them for this reason. I used to keep them to document gambling losses, when I itemized, and the habit stuck, even after the increase the standard deduction.

The question for the poll is if you ran a sportsbook and the policy was every game must be played for total season win bets to have action, what would you do?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
unJon
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January 11th, 2023 at 6:25:22 PM permalink
That’s awful. I’ve always hated that rule on totals for baseball games that get called off after the runs have gone over.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
SOOPOO
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January 11th, 2023 at 6:37:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was wondering today what happened to total season wins bets for Buffalo and Cincinnati.

It's my understand that both teams decided to treat the game against each other, on Jan 2, as if it never happened. Events happened the following week that made it such that the outcome of their game, if played after all, wouldn't affect the playoffs.

Even without that game, both teams easily had enough wins to cover the over side of their total season win bets:

The line on total season wins for Buffalo was 11.5 and they won 13.
The line on total season wins for Cincy was 9.5 and they won 12.

Not that it's relevant to this situation, but in the event of a tie, neither team is awarded a win nor half a win.

According to the LVRJ, the South Point refunded both under and over bets. Meanwhile, the MGM paid the overs and refunded the unders.

It just goes to show that you should be careful about throwing away what you assume are losing tickets. I personally have a bin of many hundreds of losing tickets, going back decades. Not that I keep them for this reason. I used to keep them to document gambling losses, when I itemized, and the habit stuck, even after the increase the standard deduction.

The question for the poll is if you ran a sportsbook and the policy was every game must be played for total season win bets to have action, what would you do?
link to original post



You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.

Now to your question…. I have a bunch of these season long bets. I’m pretty sure all of them state the exact conditions that would make it a ‘no bet’. I am going to get screwed on all of mine. I had Bills number one seed at I think 4-1. Plus being number 1 seed is a huge advantage to try and win Super Bowl. That’s my big season long bet.

Your question is too easy. If ‘the policy’ is every game needs to be played, and every game wasn’t played, then it’s no bet.
unJon
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January 11th, 2023 at 6:39:11 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Wizard

I was wondering today what happened to total season wins bets for Buffalo and Cincinnati.

It's my understand that both teams decided to treat the game against each other, on Jan 2, as if it never happened. Events happened the following week that made it such that the outcome of their game, if played after all, wouldn't affect the playoffs.

Even without that game, both teams easily had enough wins to cover the over side of their total season win bets:

The line on total season wins for Buffalo was 11.5 and they won 13.
The line on total season wins for Cincy was 9.5 and they won 12.

Not that it's relevant to this situation, but in the event of a tie, neither team is awarded a win nor half a win.

According to the LVRJ, the South Point refunded both under and over bets. Meanwhile, the MGM paid the overs and refunded the unders.

It just goes to show that you should be careful about throwing away what you assume are losing tickets. I personally have a bin of many hundreds of losing tickets, going back decades. Not that I keep them for this reason. I used to keep them to document gambling losses, when I itemized, and the habit stuck, even after the increase the standard deduction.

The question for the poll is if you ran a sportsbook and the policy was every game must be played for total season win bets to have action, what would you do?
link to original post



You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.

Now to your question…. I have a bunch of these season long bets. I’m pretty sure all of them state the exact conditions that would make it a ‘no bet’. I am going to get screwed on all of mine. I had Bills number one seed at I think 4-1. Plus being number 1 seed is a huge advantage to try and win Super Bowl. That’s my big season long bet.

Your question is too easy. If ‘the policy’ is every game needs to be played, and every game wasn’t played, then it’s no bet.
link to original post



You should thank the NFL. You and every other Bills fan now have a built in excuse for when Josh Allen inevitably chokes in the playoffs.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
SOOPOO
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January 11th, 2023 at 6:43:50 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Wizard

I was wondering today what happened to total season wins bets for Buffalo and Cincinnati.

It's my understand that both teams decided to treat the game against each other, on Jan 2, as if it never happened. Events happened the following week that made it such that the outcome of their game, if played after all, wouldn't affect the playoffs.

Even without that game, both teams easily had enough wins to cover the over side of their total season win bets:

The line on total season wins for Buffalo was 11.5 and they won 13.
The line on total season wins for Cincy was 9.5 and they won 12.

Not that it's relevant to this situation, but in the event of a tie, neither team is awarded a win nor half a win.

According to the LVRJ, the South Point refunded both under and over bets. Meanwhile, the MGM paid the overs and refunded the unders.

It just goes to show that you should be careful about throwing away what you assume are losing tickets. I personally have a bin of many hundreds of losing tickets, going back decades. Not that I keep them for this reason. I used to keep them to document gambling losses, when I itemized, and the habit stuck, even after the increase the standard deduction.

The question for the poll is if you ran a sportsbook and the policy was every game must be played for total season win bets to have action, what would you do?
link to original post



You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.

Now to your question…. I have a bunch of these season long bets. I’m pretty sure all of them state the exact conditions that would make it a ‘no bet’. I am going to get screwed on all of mine. I had Bills number one seed at I think 4-1. Plus being number 1 seed is a huge advantage to try and win Super Bowl. That’s my big season long bet.

Your question is too easy. If ‘the policy’ is every game needs to be played, and every game wasn’t played, then it’s no bet.
link to original post



You should thank the NFL. You and every other Bills fan now have a built in excuse for when Josh Allen inevitably chokes in the playoffs.
link to original post



You mean the Josh Allen who was absolutely amazing in the playoffs last year? How many TDs did he have in the last two minutes?

But they are certainly not markedly better than Cincy or KC. I think they are a little bit better than both.

But you are also right to express concern over Allen’s recent play. Too many interceptions trying to be too good.

Let the games begin!
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January 11th, 2023 at 8:19:03 PM permalink
If I had bet the over on the Bengals, could I have cashed in as soon as they hit ten wins or would I have had to wait until the season ended?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Wizard
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January 11th, 2023 at 11:08:05 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.
link to original post



I looked into this and it seems I was wrong.

Does anyone know if the two teams made an effort to finish the game. Did Cincinnati have the same playoff position regardless of the outcome? Was there ever any talk to finish the game in an empty stadium?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EdCollins
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January 12th, 2023 at 12:14:09 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Does anyone know if the two teams made an effort to finish the game. Did Cincinnati have the same playoff position regardless of the outcome? Was there ever any talk to finish the game in an empty stadium?

I did hear that the Bills were on a plane that very same evening, heading back to Buffalo. Initially I wondered... why don't they all just stay in town that evening, and attempt to resume the game that next day, on Tuesday?

I never heard or read about any talks. Any talks that were done between the Bills, the Bengals, and the NFL office were most likely done behind closed doors and not recorded or revealed. I'm sure several suggestions were all made about resuming the game... but none that were deemed acceptable. It was a bad situation all around.

If the Bengals had beaten the Bills that night, and all other games finished exactly as they did, they would have been the 2nd Seed (instead of #3) and would be hosting the Dolphins this weekend. Baltimore, the 6th Seed, would be traveling to Buffalo who would have been the 3rd Seed.

And yes, if the Bills had won the game that night, they'd be the #1 Seed and would be off this weekend and KC as the #2 Seed would be hosting Miami.

You can confirm this with the ESPN playoff machine:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/machine

Click on the Week 17 tab and mark the desired result for that unplayed game and watch the playoff order change accordingly.

(Please tell me you're familiar with this tool. If not, you're in for a treat. It's absolutely wonderful. I've been using it for many years now.)
SOOPOO
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January 12th, 2023 at 4:06:23 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.
link to original post



I looked into this and it seems I was wrong.

Does anyone know if the two teams made an effort to finish the game. Did Cincinnati have the same playoff position regardless of the outcome? Was there ever any talk to finish the game in an empty stadium?
link to original post



The teams did the opposite. Once the gravity of the situation became clear, they were not going to resume the game that day. I believe the NFL delayed canceling the game for an hour or so hoping for positive news…. like…. ‘Hamlin is awake and alert at a local hospital with no neurological deficit’. Once that type of news wasn’t coming, there was no way the players would resume. The NFL wanted to resume the game on a later date, but there were too many logistical problems to overcome. There just wasn’t enough time to safely and fairly squeeze it in and still have the playoffs start this Saturday. If they did decide to delay the playoffs by a week, then they could be playing this Saturday. There would be absolutely no reason to consider playing it in an empty stadium; it would be played in Cincinnati like it was supposed to be. And sold out EASILY.

The post before mine details how the Bengals were screwed the most. Had they won they would have gotten the number 2 seed. And HOSTED the Bills if they met in the second round. Now they will be AT the Bills if both teams win their first game.
Wizard
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January 12th, 2023 at 6:45:44 AM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

You can confirm this with the ESPN playoff machine:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/machine

Click on the Week 17 tab and mark the desired result for that unplayed game and watch the playoff order change accordingly.

(Please tell me you're familiar with this tool. If not, you're in for a treat. It's absolutely wonderful. I've been using it for many years now.)
link to original post



How do I "mark" the desired result?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EdCollins
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January 12th, 2023 at 6:55:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

How do I "mark" the desired result?

Ah. I see you no longer can, with the exception of the Buffalo/Cincinnati game in Week 17. (For that game, simply click the small icon of the team.)

Apparently after a game is finished you can't change the results. I don't think I knew this until just now.

Usually I start using this too/website when there is just 3 or 4 weeks left to go in the season. That's when I like to see what the chances are of various teams making the playoffs, and what Seed # each will be. It's fun, and informative. to instantly see how the seeding changes after the result of a single game.

Yahoo has (or had) an almost identical tool. (I've always preferred the ESPN tool.) However, I suspect Yahoo is the same... after a game is completed, the tool no longer allows you to change the actual result.
Wizard
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January 12th, 2023 at 7:41:39 AM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

Quote: Wizard

How do I "mark" the desired result?

Ah. I see you no longer can, with the exception of the Buffalo/Cincinnati game in Week 17. (For that game, simply click the small icon of the team.)
link to original post



That's the game I want to play around with. I can click the team icons, but I don't see where to enter a score for Jan 3 game.
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EdCollins
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January 12th, 2023 at 7:53:08 AM permalink
Scores are never entered. The only way to mark a result is either as a "winner" or as a "loser" or as a "tie game." And you just click the tiny logo/icon to do that.

After doing so, you should see the seeding below change instantly, based upon the results of the click. (If not, something is wrong.)

For example, in Week 17, clicking the Buffalo Bills helmet indicates that team won, (the icon is no longer grayed out, but nice and bright) and after doing so, you see the seeding change underneath, giving Buffalo the #1 seed.

If you then click the Bengals icon, that icon is then no longer grayed out, but nice and bright (and the Bills icon now grayed) and you then see the seeding below change accordingly.

I wish the page/tool allowed you to change the results for games that were already played. Again, I usually use this around Week 14 or 15, and set a bunch of results for all of the upcoming games that have not yet been played. I'm not sure I was aware you can't change the result after the game is over with.

I looked... and I no longer see Yahoo's similar generator. I found a lot of links to it and forums that mention it... but when I attempt to go to that page, Yahoo directs me elsewhere. I suspect their similar tool is no longer available.

You'll have to make a note to again visit this ESPN Playoff Generator next year, say about Week 13 or Week 14. The final few weeks of the season is when it's most useful and fun.
SOOPOO
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January 12th, 2023 at 8:38:29 AM permalink
To answer the OP’s main question….. different sites handle these types of things differently. I had a BetRivers bet on Bills to go 6-0 against division rivals. They lost first game in September or October so it was a loss. But they kept it as ‘open’ until the season ended. I think if Patriots game in week 18 was canceled that bet would have been graded ‘void’.
I had bet on Pujols to get his 700th HR this season. A week after he hit it they still had the bet as ‘open’.
Other sites paid as soon as a bet was ‘inevitable’. I was paid on Bills winning devision as soon as they ‘clinched’ it, as an example. And my Rams similar bet was called a loss a month or so before the season ended.
Mission146
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January 12th, 2023 at 11:10:26 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was wondering today what happened to total season wins bets for Buffalo and Cincinnati.

It's my understand that both teams decided to treat the game against each other, on Jan 2, as if it never happened. Events happened the following week that made it such that the outcome of their game, if played after all, wouldn't affect the playoffs.

Even without that game, both teams easily had enough wins to cover the over side of their total season win bets:

The line on total season wins for Buffalo was 11.5 and they won 13.
The line on total season wins for Cincy was 9.5 and they won 12.

Not that it's relevant to this situation, but in the event of a tie, neither team is awarded a win nor half a win.

According to the LVRJ, the South Point refunded both under and over bets. Meanwhile, the MGM paid the overs and refunded the unders.

It just goes to show that you should be careful about throwing away what you assume are losing tickets. I personally have a bin of many hundreds of losing tickets, going back decades. Not that I keep them for this reason. I used to keep them to document gambling losses, when I itemized, and the habit stuck, even after the increase the standard deduction.

The question for the poll is if you ran a sportsbook and the policy was every game must be played for total season win bets to have action, what would you do?
link to original post



Honestly, I wouldn't have that blanket policy on those types of bets. Given the number of games that were played, as well as the number of wins, the over covers (in both cases) and the Under could never have come in anyway.

Both teams already went OVER prior to the Bills/Bengals game even being cancelled, so I would consider those bets as resolved. OVERS win; UNDERS lose. There's no question in my mind that the OVERS should absolutely be paid, so based on South Point's decision, I feel like I might know what side the money came in on. I also feel like they might know who may have tossed their tickets; they're just getting out of paying winning bets on that one.

I think ties are extremely relevant to the situation as the game could just as easily be treated as a tie.

I'll give MGM credit for refunding the UNDERS, even though I don't think there was a reason to do so outside of good publicity.

With that, my answer is that would not be my policy anyway. My policy would be, when the win total goes OVER, the bet has resolved.

If it were the other way around and the OVER might have come in but for a cancelled game, then I would pay the UNDERS and refund the OVERS. Of course, the only way I would do that is if a win could make it OVER or a PUSH. If a team has a win total of 8.5, gets five wins, and only one game gets cancelled, then I would decide that the OVERS would have lost no matter what.
Last edited by: Mission146 on Jan 12, 2023
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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January 12th, 2023 at 11:22:34 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.
link to original post



I looked into this and it seems I was wrong.

Does anyone know if the two teams made an effort to finish the game. Did Cincinnati have the same playoff position regardless of the outcome? Was there ever any talk to finish the game in an empty stadium?
link to original post



1.) No effort to finish the game.

2.) If KC would have lost and the winner of Bengals/Bills did NOT lose in Week 18, then the winner of Bengals/Bills would have been the #1 seed and got the first round bye regardless because both teams beat Kansas City. In this scenario, the winning team of the Bills/Bengals would, as with the Chiefs, be 14-3 and would get the first round bye due to the fact that they beat the Chiefs.

3.) If the game had been played and Cincinnati had beaten the Bills, but the Chiefs still (as actually happened) won in Week 18, then Cincinnati would be the #2 seed by virtue of sharing a record with the Bills, but having the head-to-head tiebreaker win. In this scenario, the Bengals would have home field until the Super Bowl against all teams other than the Kansas City Chiefs.

4.) Had Buffalo beaten Cincinnati, then the Bills would be the #1 seed regardless of the fact that KC won.

I don't really know what the talk was vis-a-vis finishing the game as most reports prior to a decision being announced are speculative and unconfirmed.

In my opinion, the most competitive solution that would make sense is to simply delay the Playoffs by one week and, this weekend, play the game between the Bengals and the Bills. However, I would only do that if it could potentially matter---which it could, as a win over the Bengals would give the Bills home field throughout the Playoffs as they have the tiebreaker over the Chiefs. In so doing, the Pro Bowl would either have to be cancelled, delayed or lack participants from what would be the four remaining teams in the Playoffs, which I see as no big deal. The Pro Bowl sucks now anyway.

Basically, the game between the Bengals/Bills was cancelled and the team to (potentially) benefit most was the Chiefs, who were beaten by both of those teams.
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January 12th, 2023 at 11:25:55 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

You are 100% wrong on your statement that the outcome of the game would not have affected the playoffs!!!!! Had the game been played, and the Bills won, they would have been the number one seed. As a result of it not being played they are the number 2 seed. This is HUGE in the NFL! The number one seed gets a bye, meaning they only have to win two games to get to the Super Bowl, not 3! And they get a full extra week of rest which is a big advantage this time of year. And they would get to play the two games they need at home! The ONLY concession the NFL made to the Bills is that IF the Bills win their first two games the third game, if against KC, is played at a neutral site.
link to original post



I looked into this and it seems I was wrong.

Does anyone know if the two teams made an effort to finish the game. Did Cincinnati have the same playoff position regardless of the outcome? Was there ever any talk to finish the game in an empty stadium?
link to original post



1.) No effort to finish the game.

2.) If KC would have lost and the winner of Bengals/Bills did NOT lose in Week 18, then the winner of Bengals/Bills would have been the #1 seed and got the first round bye regardless because both teams beat Kansas City. In this scenario, the winning team of the Bills/Bengals would, as with the Chiefs, be 14-3 and would get the first round bye due to the fact that they beat the Chiefs.

3.) If the game had been played and Cincinnati had beaten the Bills, but the Chiefs still (as actually happened) won in Week 18, then Cincinnati would be the #2 seed by virtue of sharing a record with the Bills, but having the head-to-head tiebreaker win. In this scenario, the Bengals would have home field until the Super Bowl against all teams other than the Kansas City Chiefs.

4.) Had Buffalo beaten Cincinnati, then the Bills would be the #1 seed regardless of the fact that KC won.

I don't really know what the talk was vis-a-vis finishing the game as most reports prior to a decision being announced are speculative and unconfirmed.

In my opinion, the most competitive solution that would make sense is to simply delay the Playoffs by one week and, this weekend, play the game between the Chiefs and the Bills. However, I would only do that if it could potentially matter---which it could, as a win over the Bengals would give the Bills home field throughout the Playoffs as they have the tiebreaker over the Chiefs. In so doing, the Pro Bowl would either have to be cancelled, delayed or lack participants from what would be the four remaining teams in the Playoffs, which I see as no big deal. The Pro Bowl sucks now anyway.

Basically, the game between the Bengals/Bills was cancelled and the team to (potentially) benefit most was the Chiefs, who were beaten by both of those teams.
link to original post



I think the proper answer is to just call all of the bets winners, but like some online casinos just never let anyone cash out. maybe just offer +200 on both sides of a bet to encourage people to bet big thinking it is a mistake, then never let them cash out.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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