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Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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April 10th, 2016 at 10:15:41 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It has nothing to do with the use of a VPN But where you were @ when you used the VPN.

My money would be on this being the winner. I hope Wizard can find out some info and help get it resolved if it is a legitimate complaint.

Best of luck OP. Bovada/Bodog have an above average rep. I don't hear very many negative stories about them when it comes to paying winners.
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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April 10th, 2016 at 11:21:10 PM permalink
Quote: gamblor88

The use of the VPN was unintentional it was already running on my laptop for other reasons. Over 90% of all my logins and all the bets I placed were from a 4g cell phone while located in the USA (No VPN running).

Bovada does not accept customers using Australian IP addresses. But when I was located in the USA I had USA IP address and was able to signup. They did not expect anybody would do this as im not a US citizen. But a careful reading of their terms and conditions reveals that there are no rules about being a US Citizen, Permanent Resident or Green Card holder.

You were able to use Green Dot to make a deposit???

Did you try to cash out(20k?) or did the suddenly contact you out of the blue when they detected a VPN?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
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April 10th, 2016 at 11:45:34 PM permalink

you said they did not pay you the 20k but did indeed refunded you your deposit(s).

i notice you deposited at least twice. first time you lost it all.

did they refund you BOTH deposits or just the last deposit on which you won the 20k?

It would be a shame if they just refunded your winning deposit and not your losing deposit (not that it's not a shame now)
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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April 11th, 2016 at 9:56:43 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I will see if I can get Bovada's version of this. They, as are any advertiser, are welcome to comment directly, if they wish.

I'm quite intrigued to hear the clarification of both sides. As of now I'll reserve any judgement. Here's what it sounds like we have so far:

- Player deposit, lose
- Player deposit, lose
- Player deposit, run up to $20k, Bovada investigates (with no request to cash out) and closes account, taking the profits.

I'm not familiar with their VPN policies, but if they can trace that level they should be able to at least tell which bets the OP made from his phone and which were from his laptop, so even if they voided the laptop bets the op, as he stated, should still get "90%" or his winnings?

Bovada is "usually" a good online casino, though I had my run in with them a couple years back for not wanting to pay me on a winning bet. It does seem like when you have a lot of winnings or a large winning wager they don't handle it very well; they seem to freak out in a sense that winning isn't normal nor okay.

Has anyone ever cashed larger sums of money out from Bovada? Something like over $5k, over $10k, or over $20k?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Joined: Apr 4, 2016
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April 11th, 2016 at 2:48:58 PM permalink
Thats sucks. I cant imagine that. I know i deposited about 40 dollars lost hands coincidentally all but one hand split on a hand
I find playing at a casino that the integrity is at their fullest but dealers r learning how to card count and so is the people who r in charge of the cameras. I dont play blackjack anymore online seeing its hard to catch a slight modification in the program so i play three card. Thats more hard cause u can be like hold on a minute this doesnt seem right. I quit bovada after that quick loss. They dont have my clientship anymore. Hopefully if the casino rigged ur games u get compensation.
Joined: May 8, 2015
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April 13th, 2016 at 4:20:33 PM permalink
This review of Bovada states that they have dual lines. One line for recreational players and a worse line for "educated" players. I suspect that there are other sportsbooks that do this. When I use to bet at frequently I would click the submit button and then a message would come back that this line is no longer available. Then they would offer me a worse line. I would like to hear others commenting about this. Here is the cut and paste and the link to the website that provided this critique:

"The second biggest reason for critique is offering dual lines which means different sets of betting lines for different customers. This is why you may often see different betting lines by logging in than what you just saw seconds earlier. The only other US-friendly betting site offering dual lines (that Im aware of, anyway) is BetUS.

The change in lines happens once identifies your skill-level. Recreational bettors, for example, often bet on popular games and teams, while educated bettors look for profitable betting opportunities. As you open an account, the popular teams have slightly worse lines than they would if you were tagged as an educated bettor, and their less-popular opposition likely have slightly better lines these are known as square lines.

Recreational bettors often blindly bet on the popular teams while educated bettors take an advantage of the less-popular team getting better odds. Once educated bettors take an advantage of these opportunities and get identified by Bovada, they get a different set of betting lines (known as sharp lines):

Square Lines
Team A: -7.5
Team B: +7.5

Sharp Lines
Team A: -7
Team B: +7"
𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳.........𝖤𝖽𝗀𝖺𝗋 𝖠𝗅𝗅𝖺𝗇 𝖯𝗈𝖾
Joined: May 21, 2013
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April 13th, 2016 at 8:09:24 PM permalink
So, not in the same league as the issues OP had, but I played Bovada last week, deposited 300, played a while (tables slots and VP), got bored, cashed out for about 420. Took 8 days for the money to hit my Visa account, which it did yesterday. So good transaction start to finish, very routine.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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April 14th, 2016 at 12:54:58 AM permalink
I must have missed something because I have no idea why we are talking about 11 year olds gambling?

Someone stated they have 2 different lines, one for sharp players and one for square players .If true, I find that disgusting. Can we talk about that?

Basically its' saying DUMB PEOPLE ONLY. SLIMY TACTICS. That's exactly why I think all legal tactics are fair gsme.

Imagine if you went to a casino and played BJ and they told you no splitting or double downs, however the guy next to you could do both as well as early surrender.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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April 14th, 2016 at 4:24:30 AM permalink
Bovada definitely has two sets of lines. The good news is, when you have a new account, it's pretty easy to bet good lines. They'll give you the bad lines after a while and limit you, but there are still lots of good bets.

You won't always be able to bet a lot. They only let me bet $7.00 on Mookie Betts for MVP, but the let me bet $100 on most of the other baseball props. Not worth it for some, but well worth it for me.
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
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April 14th, 2016 at 6:54:24 AM permalink
Firstly thanks for taking this to Bovada.
The fact that they dont want to make any statements speaks volumes. A reputable company would instantly state their side of it.
Ive dealt with lots of internet bookmakers in my life and can honestly say they are the worst and most sleazy operation Ive encountered yet.

I would like to state that all bets I placed at Bovada were from a 4g cell phone while located in the state of Connecticut.
The few times that I logged in from my laptop over the vpn was only to check my balance and results.
I would welcome any independent investigation by an IT person to verify this.

A fair and square policy in a situation like this would be to close my account and send me a cheque for the balance (winnings + plus deposit) along with
an email explaining we dont want your business anymore. If I lost and my balance was $0 then all they need to do is close my account and send the email.

If Bovadas policy is consistent and fair somebody should log in place a bet and then if it loses just log in with a VPN. Better yet call them and say im logging in with
a VPN right now. This should trigger and account closure along with a refund of your deposit.
Of course they will never do this which shows the one sided scam they are running.

Ive accidentally violated VPN policies on some of the European bookmakers before and all I got was a please explain email. Once I stopped using the VPN they allowed me to keep playing. No stealing my winnings. No FBI style phone interview.

Here are some more details about the horrible phone conversations they had with me.
They spoke down to me the way that the police would talk to a criminal.
They accused me of
"Having a California phone number but living in CT" Gasp!!!! that was where I bought my cell phone when I landed.
"Not being an American Citizen" - Not a violation of any of their terms.
"Being part of a criminal betting syndicate" - Thats impossible to disprove its like being accused of using jedi mind powers to win.
- Its probable that many other sharp players were swooping on the same good lines as me and thats where syndicate idea comes from I guess.

My girlfriend was getting emotional in the background at the thought of having our money stolen.
Bovada shouted down the line at me "Whos That ... Whos Coaching you Sir ... We know who you are working with. The game is up."
I put my girlfriend on the line and she cried and shouted at him which was pretty funny.

This is not a legit bookie like say pinnacle who simply makes a market between two players and takes a small commission. This is a sleazy criminal scam
located in an Indian reservation. They want dumb players who they can bet against because its much more profitable than the pinnacle sports model.
When they find a sharp player they are insulted. Who dares win from Bovada. They deal him special bad lines and if the winning keeps up they look for
any way to steal his money and get rid of him.

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