Bovada stole $20,000 from me
Thread Rating:
I reside in Australia but I usually spend at least three months of the year in the USA because of my work.
A friend recommend Bovada to me because they had some great lines for live betting on a sport I follow.
I read the terms and conditions and there was no requirement that a new member should be a US citizen or
permanent resident. At the time I was residing in the USA so it seems there was nothing to stop me joining.
My first few deposits of a couple of thousand dollars lost and Bovada said nothing and took the money.
I redeposited and then ran up a $20,000 profit. Bovada shut my account and requested Docs. I provided them.
They then requested I call them and had there accounts manager rudely interrogated me as if he was the head of the FBI.
I asked him to show me which of the terms and conditions id broken. He stammered around and finally all he could
produce was using a VPN. Over 90% of my log ins were from a USA cell phone using the 4g network(NO VPN). There were a couple
of logins from my laptop were the VPN was running unfortunately. So based on this he confiscated my $20,000 profit and refunded
my deposit.
I was outraged and went to Kahnawake gambling commission the administrator of the indian nation where this scam company is based. They were rude unprofessional and totally one sided. They never even asked for my side of the story and just ruled in Bovadas favour.
Here is Bovadas scam.. If you are a sharp player that manages to beat their lines they will try to fault you on any detail and steal your profits.
If you lose they will just not bother to check you out and keep the money.
For example if they were fair about their using a VPN rule you could make a bet and if it loses then just log in with a VPN.
This should void the user agreement and force them to return your deposit.
Of course this would never happen which demonstrates the scam they are running.
They will only use the VPN clause to steal money from winning players.
Avoid Them.
Stay Away run for the hills.
You have no rights once you give them your money. They can just do what ever they please.
They will always shower losing players with promos and do whatever they can to confiscate sharp players profits and drive them
away.
Mark.
What VPN were you using? I assumed the entire premise of a VPN was so you couldn't tell it was a VPN I assume some free service are obvious VPN's and others are not?Quote: gamblor88Id like to warn everybody to avoid Bovada. They are sleezy criminals that dont like winning players.
I reside in Australia but I usually spend at least three months of the year in the USA because of my work.
A friend recommend Bovada to me because they had some great lines for live betting on a sport I follow.
The read the terms and conditions and there was no requirement that a new member should be a US citizen or
permanent resident. At the time I was residing in the USA so it seems there was nothing to stop me joining.
My first few deposits of a couple of thousand dollars lost and Bovada said nothing and took the money.
I redeposited and then ran up a $20,000 profit. Bovada shut my account and requested Docs. I provided them.
They then requested I call them and had there accounts manager rudely interrogated me as if he was the head of the FBI.
I asked him to show me which of the terms and conditions id broken. He stammered around and finally all he could
produce was using a VPN. Over 90% of my log ins were from a USA cell phone using the 4g network(NO VPN). There were a couple
of logins from my laptop were the VPN was running unfortunately. So based on this he confiscated my $20,000 profit and refunded
my deposit.
I was outraged and went to Kahnawake gambling commission the administrator of the indian nation where this scam company is based. They were rude unprofessional and totally one sided. They never even asked for my side of the story and just ruled in Bovadas favour.
Here is Bovadas scam.. If you are a sharp player that manages to beat their lines they will try to fault you on any detail and steal your profits.
If you lose they will just not bother to check you out and keep the money.
For example if they were fair about their using a VPN rule you could make a bet and if it loses then just log in with a VPN.
This should void the user agreement and force them to return your deposit.
Of course this would never happen which demonstrates the scam they are running.
They will only use the VPN clause to steal money from winning players.
Avoid Them.
Stay Away run for the hills.
You have no rights once you give them your money. They can just do what ever they please.
They will always shower losing players with promos and do whatever they can to confiscate sharp players profits and drive them
away.
Mark.
I pay for the service. Its very handy. A good IT person can trace my ip address back to the Vyper server.
Anyway im pretty sure if one of Bovadas customers who was down thousands logged in with a VPN a couple of times they
would just send him a polite email saying VPNs not permitted thanks not steal his money.
Bovada does not accept customers using Australian IP addresses. But when I was located in the USA I had USA IP address and was able to signup. They did not expect anybody would do this as im not a US citizen. But a careful reading of their terms and conditions reveals that there are no rules about being a US Citizen, Permanent Resident or Green Card holder.
Quote:I was outraged and went to Kahnawake gambling commission
You might as well have yelled out the window. KGC is not a real gaming commission. They were the "regulator" for two online poker insider cheating scandals and numerous site failures where players got stiffed, including Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet, which were the cheat poker sites.
It has nothing to do with the use of a VPN But where you were @ when you used the VPN.Quote: gamblor88The use of the VPN was unintentional it was already running on my laptop for other reasons. Over 90% of all my logins and all the bets I placed were from a 4g cell phone while located in the USA (No VPN running).
Bovada does not accept customers using Australian IP addresses. But when I was located in the USA I had USA IP address and was able to signup. They did not expect anybody would do this as im not a US citizen. But a careful reading of their terms and conditions reveals that there are no rules about being a US Citizen, Permanent Resident or Green Card holder.
when you are giving them money, everything is ok, no problem. when you are claiming your fair share, then everything seems not OK.
Quote: AxelWolfIt has nothing to do with the use of a VPN But where you were @ when you used the VPN.
My money would be on this being the winner. I hope Wizard can find out some info and help get it resolved if it is a legitimate complaint.
Best of luck OP. Bovada/Bodog have an above average rep. I don't hear very many negative stories about them when it comes to paying winners.
You were able to use Green Dot to make a deposit???Quote: gamblor88The use of the VPN was unintentional it was already running on my laptop for other reasons. Over 90% of all my logins and all the bets I placed were from a 4g cell phone while located in the USA (No VPN running).
Bovada does not accept customers using Australian IP addresses. But when I was located in the USA I had USA IP address and was able to signup. They did not expect anybody would do this as im not a US citizen. But a careful reading of their terms and conditions reveals that there are no rules about being a US Citizen, Permanent Resident or Green Card holder.
Did you try to cash out(20k?) or did the suddenly contact you out of the blue when they detected a VPN?
you said they did not pay you the 20k but did indeed refunded you your deposit(s).
i notice you deposited at least twice. first time you lost it all.
did they refund you BOTH deposits or just the last deposit on which you won the 20k?
It would be a shame if they just refunded your winning deposit and not your losing deposit (not that it's not a shame now)
I'm quite intrigued to hear the clarification of both sides. As of now I'll reserve any judgement. Here's what it sounds like we have so far:Quote: WizardI will see if I can get Bovada's version of this. They, as are any advertiser, are welcome to comment directly, if they wish.
- Player deposit, lose
- Player deposit, lose
- Player deposit, run up to $20k, Bovada investigates (with no request to cash out) and closes account, taking the profits.
I'm not familiar with their VPN policies, but if they can trace that level they should be able to at least tell which bets the OP made from his phone and which were from his laptop, so even if they voided the laptop bets the op, as he stated, should still get "90%" or his winnings?
Bovada is "usually" a good online casino, though I had my run in with them a couple years back for not wanting to pay me on a winning bet. It does seem like when you have a lot of winnings or a large winning wager they don't handle it very well; they seem to freak out in a sense that winning isn't normal nor okay.
Has anyone ever cashed larger sums of money out from Bovada? Something like over $5k, over $10k, or over $20k?
I find playing at a casino that the integrity is at their fullest but dealers r learning how to card count and so is the people who r in charge of the cameras. I dont play blackjack anymore online seeing its hard to catch a slight modification in the program so i play three card. Thats more hard cause u can be like hold on a minute this doesnt seem right. I quit bovada after that quick loss. They dont have my clientship anymore. Hopefully if the casino rigged ur games u get compensation.
"The second biggest reason for critique is offering dual lines which means different sets of betting lines for different customers. This is why you may often see different betting lines by logging in than what you just saw seconds earlier. The only other US-friendly betting site offering dual lines (that I’m aware of, anyway) is BetUS.
The change in lines happens once Bovada.lv identifies your skill-level. Recreational bettors, for example, often bet on popular games and teams, while educated bettors look for profitable betting opportunities. As you open an account, the popular teams have slightly worse lines than they would if you were tagged as an educated bettor, and their less-popular opposition likely have slightly better lines – these are known as square lines.
Recreational bettors often blindly bet on the popular teams while educated bettors take an advantage of the less-popular team getting better odds. Once educated bettors take an advantage of these opportunities and get identified by Bovada, they get a different set of betting lines (known as sharp lines):
Square Lines
Team A: -7.5
Team B: +7.5
Sharp Lines
Team A: -7
Team B: +7"
http://www.legitgamblingsites.com/bovada/
Someone stated they have 2 different lines, one for sharp players and one for square players .If true, I find that disgusting. Can we talk about that?
Basically its' saying DUMB PEOPLE ONLY. SLIMY TACTICS. That's exactly why I think all legal tactics are fair gsme.
Imagine if you went to a casino and played BJ and they told you no splitting or double downs, however the guy next to you could do both as well as early surrender.
You won't always be able to bet a lot. They only let me bet $7.00 on Mookie Betts for MVP, but the let me bet $100 on most of the other baseball props. Not worth it for some, but well worth it for me.
The fact that they dont want to make any statements speaks volumes. A reputable company would instantly state their side of it.
Ive dealt with lots of internet bookmakers in my life and can honestly say they are the worst and most sleazy operation Ive encountered yet.
I would like to state that all bets I placed at Bovada were from a 4g cell phone while located in the state of Connecticut.
The few times that I logged in from my laptop over the vpn was only to check my balance and results.
I would welcome any independent investigation by an IT person to verify this.
A fair and square policy in a situation like this would be to close my account and send me a cheque for the balance (winnings + plus deposit) along with
an email explaining we dont want your business anymore. If I lost and my balance was $0 then all they need to do is close my account and send the email.
If Bovadas policy is consistent and fair somebody should log in place a bet and then if it loses just log in with a VPN. Better yet call them and say im logging in with
a VPN right now. This should trigger and account closure along with a refund of your deposit.
Of course they will never do this which shows the one sided scam they are running.
Ive accidentally violated VPN policies on some of the European bookmakers before and all I got was a please explain email. Once I stopped using the VPN they allowed me to keep playing. No stealing my winnings. No FBI style phone interview.
Here are some more details about the horrible phone conversations they had with me.
They spoke down to me the way that the police would talk to a criminal.
They accused me of
"Having a California phone number but living in CT" Gasp!!!! that was where I bought my cell phone when I landed.
"Not being an American Citizen" - Not a violation of any of their terms.
"Being part of a criminal betting syndicate" - Thats impossible to disprove its like being accused of using jedi mind powers to win.
- Its probable that many other sharp players were swooping on the same good lines as me and thats where syndicate idea comes from I guess.
My girlfriend was getting emotional in the background at the thought of having our money stolen.
Bovada shouted down the line at me "Whos That ... Whos Coaching you Sir ... We know who you are working with. The game is up."
I put my girlfriend on the line and she cried and shouted at him which was pretty funny.
This is not a legit bookie like say pinnacle who simply makes a market between two players and takes a small commission. This is a sleazy criminal scam
located in an Indian reservation. They want dumb players who they can bet against because its much more profitable than the pinnacle sports model.
When they find a sharp player they are insulted. Who dares win from Bovada. They deal him special bad lines and if the winning keeps up they look for
any way to steal his money and get rid of him.
Will Bovada be permitted to advertise, or even want to advertise here if the negative comments about them continue to pile up and the matter is not resolved satisfactorily?
If you don't know the answer to that, I don't know what else to say.Quote: MrVWill Bovada be permitted to advertise, or even want to advertise here if the negative comments about them continue to pile up and the matter is not resolved satisfactorily?
Quote: wizardI brought this up to Bovada. All I can say is they are aware of it but they didn't make any statement about this case to me.
For those who don't know, a VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. They can disguise the location where the owner of a VPN is playing from. I strongly speculate many banned members have used them to return here, to avoid IP address matching.
Not to make any comment about this specific case, but it is not unusual in the industry to scrutinize a player more carefully after a win. I've heard stories lots of times of seizing a win by a rule-breaking player without offsetting any prior losses.
It would be this way in Vegas too. Say a minor loses $1,000 in a slot machine and then hits a jackpot for $3,000. The casino would not pay the jackpot. If the player argued, "Where were you when I lost $1,000? How about at least giving me that back?" The casino would at best say "no," and at worst trespass the player.
Quote: AxelWolfSomeone stated they have 2 different lines, one for sharp players and one for square players .If true, I find that disgusting. Can we talk about that?
Almost exactly the same as resort fees. You see a room advertised for $120, then when you try to pay it says it's $150. So you either pay or pick out a different hotel. You see they have +7.5, and when you go to bet they have it as +7, so you don't bet. At least with Bovada, they give you one shot at a max bet on a great line. Then you bet with the books that are much better.
