rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 2001
December 31st, 2013 at 11:41:05 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

Horses that wear blinkers probably wouldnt know if they were passed in the last seconds. So just because us humans saw the horse being passed and coming in second or third...doesnt mean the horse saw it. So again beating the horse assuming they saw through their eyes what we saw from our eyes is a flawed assumption.



i took this into account by just saying if there were any horses in front of the horse.

Quote: LarryS

Thinking that your dog watching tv on your lap, sees the exact same thing in the exact same colors in the exact same visual acuity as humans is a faulty assumption.
What a horse sees and mentally processes before during and after a race is not something anyone can know. Therefore beating a horse based on what you think he saw is faulty punishment.



of course we can never know exactly whats going through a horses head. thats where experimentation with reward/punishment comes in.
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
December 31st, 2013 at 11:53:10 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

i took this into account by just saying if there were any horses in front of the horse.



of course we can never know exactly whats going through a horses head. thats where experimentation with reward/punishment comes in.




its not cruel enough to beat them during the race, and in training leading up to the race to teach them to run fast at the jockey's will.

But then we are going to experimentally beat them to teach them a lesson that we think they should have seen through their eyes as we see through our eyes.

nice
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
  • Threads: 202
  • Posts: 7639
January 1st, 2014 at 12:08:46 AM permalink
What was the question again? Are horses smart? Why yes they are.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker.
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 162
  • Posts: 9322
January 1st, 2014 at 12:36:07 AM permalink
Horses may be smart enough to train to race and know they must be ahead of other horses. But even if you can do that, that would likely take a lot of training.

But if you crack a whip at anything's butt you can make it move and move fast as it can go. So, horse racing isn't really about proving whether horses could race in that manner.

Same with dogs. Who says you can't train them to race without a mechanical rabbit? You probably can. Dogs can do fairly complex maneuvers
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 162
  • Posts: 9322
January 1st, 2014 at 12:52:28 AM permalink
I assume you're making an animal cruelty argument more than anything else. Probably the "whip" defenders say it doesn't hurt the horse that much, though who knows.

If you snap at someone's bare leg it will hurt. But if they're wearing a leather boot, it may just startle them. (horse's hide?)
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 135
  • Posts: 17722
January 1st, 2014 at 7:13:44 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Gee Larry, your last statement seems to prove the intelligence of horses.

+1 OMG!.... that was funny
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
January 1st, 2014 at 7:28:33 AM permalink
Well Larry, you got the argument you crave, congratulations.
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
January 1st, 2014 at 7:45:14 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I assume you're making an animal cruelty argument more than anything else. Probably the "whip" defenders say it doesn't hurt the horse that much, though who knows.

If you snap at someone's bare leg it will hurt. But if they're wearing a leather boot, it may just startle them. (horse's hide?)



Along with giving horses the human intellegence and thought processes..now someone is giving them superhuman qualities of tolerating whipping better than humans because horses must have no nerve endings in their "hide"/skin to let them know that their body is in danger, or to feel good when they get a hose turned on them or to feel heat when they are in the sun so they know to go to the shade. So whipping a horse is like tapping a human on the shoulder. All because those leather boots are so thick and really take alot of abuse.

thats funny.

It kind of makes the part about waiting till the hiorse crosses the finish line, and then beat the horsem while assuming it saw and understands what a finish line is make sense in comparison

I am not crying over the whipping of horses. I have been a race fan knowing and seeing this happen every race. I am just saying that along with having superior physical abilities,.....and the jockey expertly guding and whipping them.....that is the recipe for the wins.....not the "will of the horse to win" not "the heart of a champion"

that is just humans giving horses magical human traits so we feel that the animal is getting satisfaction from the "win" as well. They get satisfaction from being a "champion"..they really really want to win....just like us humans. Yes they get whipped, but then they are a "champion" with a "champions heart and will to win"...so its a yes/yes deal for every party involved
LarryS
LarryS
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 1410
January 1st, 2014 at 8:07:54 AM permalink
If anyone has seen a race where the jockey is thrown off the horse when the gate opens....the horse still runs the race like it was trained. It sometimes even comes out ahead of the other horses......but a funny thing happpens....when it crosses the finish line it keeps going. It has no jockey to tell it to stop. It has no idea what a finish line is or that it was crossed....its ready to keep running.Its going and going hoping it doesnt receive pain.
Sabretom2
Sabretom2
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 718
January 1st, 2014 at 8:14:47 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS

has no idea what a finish line is or that it was crossed....its ready to keep running.Its going and going hoping it doesnt receive pain.



So hope is more than just a human emotion?

  • Jump to: