DRich
DRich
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February 14th, 2024 at 12:16:29 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz


Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!



You really don't know what you are talking about.

The slot machine prints out a ticket #1234556 which is listed on the ticket.

The database says that ticket #1234556 belongs to Darkoz. There is absolutely nothing in the ticket that points to you.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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February 14th, 2024 at 12:38:08 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz


Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!



You really don't know what you are talking about.

The slot machine prints out a ticket #1234556 which is listed on the ticket.

The database says that ticket #1234556 belongs to Darkoz. There is absolutely nothing in the ticket that points to you.
link to original post



That's semantics.

The ticket number #1234556 literally pointed to me and you are saying nothing in the ticket points to me.

If #1234456 points to a database entry that further points to Darkoz its the same thing.

To sit and say there is nothing on the TITO could easily lead AP's to not understand that the TITO is indeed tied to a players card regardless of any intermediary steps!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
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February 14th, 2024 at 12:42:08 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz


Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!



You really don't know what you are talking about.

The slot machine prints out a ticket #1234556 which is listed on the ticket.

The database says that ticket #1234556 belongs to Darkoz. There is absolutely nothing in the ticket that points to you.
link to original post



That's semantics.

The ticket number #1234556 literally pointed to me and you are saying nothing in the ticket points to me.

If #1234456 points to a database entry that further points to Darkoz its the same thing.

To sit and say there is nothing on the TITO could easily lead AP's to not understand that the TITO is indeed tied to a players card regardless of any intermediary steps!
link to original post



Your lack of understanding does not imply semantics at all. It was said that the TITO ticket contained information about the player and it does not.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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February 14th, 2024 at 12:57:26 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz


Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!



You really don't know what you are talking about.

The slot machine prints out a ticket #1234556 which is listed on the ticket.

The database says that ticket #1234556 belongs to Darkoz. There is absolutely nothing in the ticket that points to you.
link to original post



That's semantics.

The ticket number #1234556 literally pointed to me and you are saying nothing in the ticket points to me.

If #1234456 points to a database entry that further points to Darkoz its the same thing.

To sit and say there is nothing on the TITO could easily lead AP's to not understand that the TITO is indeed tied to a players card regardless of any intermediary steps!
link to original post



Your lack of understanding does not imply semantics at all. It was said that the TITO ticket contained information about the player and it does not.
link to original post



Let's put it this way

The TITO can lead to the casino knowing who 's players card was used in the machine. That's not magic.

Furthermore if an AP was looking for advice on whether it was safe to cash out a $3000+ TITO and took your initial posts that there was no player information on the TITO, they would probably be very pissed off at you when they wound up evicted from the property trying to cash it in. And your, "there isn't any player info on the TITO, it's in the database that the TITO pointed to" explanation would have a very pissed off AP as a result.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SOOPOO
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February 14th, 2024 at 1:46:30 PM permalink
Gotta agree with Dark over DRich on this one. Dark never meant that the ACTUAL NAME of the player is printed IN ENGLISH on the ticket. His point was that the ticket could point to a specific person. DRich saying itís not on the ticket, itís in the database, is bizarre. EVERYONE HERE KNEW IT WASNT DIRECTLY PRINTED ON THE TICKET.

Gotta get back to clear up the arguments in the MDawg Results threadÖ.
ChumpChange
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February 14th, 2024 at 6:32:57 PM permalink
My Match Plays and Drawing vouchers clearly have my name and Player's Club # written on them, it's visible. So if I find someone else's discarded Match Plays floating around on the ground outside the front door of the casino when I leave, I probably should dispose of them instead of going back in to play them. The Pit has to sign those Match Plays before they're played anyway, and the table usually requires a Player's Card.

Now what if I found a $75 voucher floating around on the ground outside? Just make sure my card isn't inserted into a machine when I play it or cash it, and don't take it to the cage. I've made the mistake before of putting found <$1 vouchers in the slot machine under my card. But these vouchers have a history. I should save up the vouchers and use them cardless.
DRich
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February 14th, 2024 at 6:34:17 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz


The TITO can lead to the casino knowing who 's players card was used in the machine. That's not magic.



Absolutely.

Quote: darkoz


Furthermore if an AP was looking for advice on whether it was safe to cash out a $3000+ TITO and took your initial posts that there was no player information on the TITO, they would probably be very pissed off at you when they wound up evicted from the property trying to cash it in



An educated AP would have asked if a TITO could be traced back to the player and the answer would have been yes.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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SOOPOO
February 14th, 2024 at 8:45:09 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz


The TITO can lead to the casino knowing who 's players card was used in the machine. That's not magic.



Absolutely.

Quote: darkoz


Furthermore if an AP was looking for advice on whether it was safe to cash out a $3000+ TITO and took your initial posts that there was no player information on the TITO, they would probably be very pissed off at you when they wound up evicted from the property trying to cash it in



An educated AP would have asked if a TITO could be traced back to the player and the answer would have been yes.
link to original post



You are still parsing.

It's like if someone asks if pressing the gas pedal causes an automobile to move and your answer is no, it's the combustion in the engine.

On an automechanics technical level, sure that is correct but that belies the fact that the regular world recognizes what is meant by asking what the gas pedal does.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Sandybestdog
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February 14th, 2024 at 8:46:52 PM permalink
An incident, if you can call it that, led me to believe that they are tracking a lot more info than I thought. A person at the casino with me was asked for their SSN and license to cash out a ticket and the cashier kind of intimated that they had gone over $10k even though they hadn't even done half that. Maybe they filed a CTR, I don't know. Also I've heard vague language from a few different hosts/players club reps of figures they see. I believe what they are tracking is the cash in and out. So you put your card in. You download $50 in freeplay to the machine. Then you put $500 cash in the machine. It tracks how much cash you're putting in. Of course also they can track the ticket anywhere and know it's attached to your card. Then they know when the tickets have been cashed and how much the total is. So if you put cash in and then cash out and put cash in again, it can falsely flag you with a higher amount.

Also a sports kiosk I bet at where you can use your players card says Hello Name after you swipe your card. Then any voucher you print or any winning tickets that you cash when you scan it even several days later it will have your name on the screen even if you don't swipe your card.
darkoz
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February 14th, 2024 at 9:02:36 PM permalink
The good news is that the sheer volume of TITO running through the system at any given time means its simply Metadata that goes unchecked until a certain boundary is passed whether it be higher amounts than the redemption machine can cash or some suspicion already afoot for multicarding or money laundering etc.

In other words, in general if one doesn't make a stupid mistake and one doesn't already have the eye of surveillance, then the Metadata linking the vouchers to a players card are just so much detritus.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Nathan
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February 14th, 2024 at 9:17:39 PM permalink
I remember a news report about two Friends who were gambling in adjacent slots. I'll call them Michelle and Betsy. Michelle hit a Jackpot for about $5,000. But she owed $5,000 to the IRS and knew if she claimed the Jackpot, all of her $5,000 Jackpot would go to the IRS and she wouldn't have any money for herself. Betsy didn't owe any money to the IRS, so Michelle asked Betsy to claim the Jackpot as her own and they would split the Jackpot. Betsy agreed and Michelle and Betsy switched seats and Betsy claimed the Jackpot as her own. The Casino paid Betsy the $5,000, but soon reviewed surveillance camera and saw that MICHELLE actually won the Jackpot and they had switched seats. The Casino permanently banned both Michelle and Betsy for this stunt.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Slotenthusiast
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February 15th, 2024 at 12:46:46 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: ChumpChange



The TITO reportedly has the Player's Card info embedded within it.



It does not.
link to original post



The TITO most certainly can have players card info embedded in it.

I have seen a number of different situations as a multucarder where this was a fact.
link to original post



Again, it does not. The information is in the database but not on the ticket.
link to original post



I am sorry but you are wrong based on my personal experience.

Just one example. A person who started working for me didn't listen and went OVER $3000 on a ticket and had to cash out at cashier's. This is 2013 at Golden Nugget.

Was told the voucher was registered to a different person. Lucky for him that person happened to be at the casino and they had to claim the ticket.

Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!

Another example. Running multiple cards at Resorts World, they couldn't catch me (three months of back and forth) suddenly vouchers didn't cash out at kiosk. Was it a barcode misprint? No, went to cashier and found out vouchers were flagged from player's card.

I know you are an expert but TITO's can and are linked to player's cards with the information on the TITO.
link to original post



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?

I mean tell the entire story if you expect people to believe you. Did you eventually get your money? Were you 86ed? Being that resorts world has the cashless gaming system option maybe it is tied to your card, but only at that casino.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 12:57:05 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: ChumpChange



The TITO reportedly has the Player's Card info embedded within it.



It does not.
link to original post



The TITO most certainly can have players card info embedded in it.

I have seen a number of different situations as a multucarder where this was a fact.
link to original post



Again, it does not. The information is in the database but not on the ticket.
link to original post



I am sorry but you are wrong based on my personal experience.

Just one example. A person who started working for me didn't listen and went OVER $3000 on a ticket and had to cash out at cashier's. This is 2013 at Golden Nugget.

Was told the voucher was registered to a different person. Lucky for him that person happened to be at the casino and they had to claim the ticket.

Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!

Another example. Running multiple cards at Resorts World, they couldn't catch me (three months of back and forth) suddenly vouchers didn't cash out at kiosk. Was it a barcode misprint? No, went to cashier and found out vouchers were flagged from player's card.

I know you are an expert but TITO's can and are linked to player's cards with the information on the TITO.
link to original post



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?

I mean tell the entire story if you expect people to believe you. Did you eventually get your money? Were you 86ed? Being that resorts world has the cashless gaming system option maybe it is tied to your card, but only at that casino.
link to original post



At golden Nugget (that's in AC) the cashier refused payment until the person whose card was linked to voucher claimed it. They were in the casino and did so and I got my money.

At resorts world I was surrounded by security. I was in a realistic looking mask which made me look like a completely different person in his eighties and I talked my way out of getting 86'd by explaining someone owed me money and had given me the voucher as my payment. They took pity on me for two reasons. I looked old and feeble
Also I didn't break a sweat or twitch a muscle (the irony being I was sweating bullets under the mask but to them i looked cool calm and carefree.) They told me the voucher was gambled from a flagged card and confiscated the voucher.

DRich has already stated they can do figure out who's card was in the machine when the slot voucher waa cashed out and I know for 100% (not 99 9 but 100%) that they can and do link slot tickets.

Does every casino do it. How should I know. But it can be done and is done at various properties.

The resorts world this happened at was aqueduct queens which definitely does not have a cashless system!.

You state that you are aware of no casino that links tickets to players cards and I will accept that. I am telling you I am aware of some that do.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
OnceDear
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February 15th, 2024 at 2:29:09 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz


At resorts world I was surrounded by security. I was in a realistic looking mask which made me look like a completely different person in his eighties
link to original post



I love these anecdotes about the disguise mask. I wonder if surveillance has a photo of that old guy pinned up on their most wanted board.

I have visions of you as occasionally Mrs Doubtfire or Commander Worf.

Do you buy these masks in bunches at $$$ each, or do you get them custom made?
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 3:30:17 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: darkoz


At resorts world I was surrounded by security. I was in a realistic looking mask which made me look like a completely different person in his eighties
link to original post



I love these anecdotes about the disguise mask. I wonder if surveillance has a photo of that old guy pinned up on their most wanted board.

I have visions of you as occasionally Mrs Doubtfire or Commander Worf.

Do you buy these masks in bunches at $$$ each, or do you get them custom made?
link to original post



Not custom made as the companies had maybe ten or twelve templates to choose from. You decided on things to add, basic stuff like full hair or side whiskers.

Prices were from $700 - $2000 when I got them. Today probably go for a lot less. The price depended on bald vs. Human stitched hair. Orders took 6 months as they were hand crafted. For this reason used masks sold higher than new ones (shipped within a day instead of six months)

I haven't worn a mask since 2016 (not counting wearing one at the 2018 WOV spring fling). Today I just send in my crew. But back then I had a much smaller operation and felt when things went bad I needed to be the one to handle it.

I know at least three of these type masks have been used in bank robberies. There may be restrictions on their sale now, but not certain.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crimes_involving_a_silicone_mask
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
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February 15th, 2024 at 5:20:06 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?



Being an expert I would love to hear your credentials. As a person that has programmed these systems used in over 100,000 slot machines I can tell you that we definitely had a link between a TITO ticket and the player card that it was issued to.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Slotenthusiast
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February 15th, 2024 at 5:21:30 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: ChumpChange



The TITO reportedly has the Player's Card info embedded within it.



It does not.
link to original post



The TITO most certainly can have players card info embedded in it.

I have seen a number of different situations as a multucarder where this was a fact.
link to original post



Again, it does not. The information is in the database but not on the ticket.
link to original post



I am sorry but you are wrong based on my personal experience.

Just one example. A person who started working for me didn't listen and went OVER $3000 on a ticket and had to cash out at cashier's. This is 2013 at Golden Nugget.

Was told the voucher was registered to a different person. Lucky for him that person happened to be at the casino and they had to claim the ticket.

Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!

Another example. Running multiple cards at Resorts World, they couldn't catch me (three months of back and forth) suddenly vouchers didn't cash out at kiosk. Was it a barcode misprint? No, went to cashier and found out vouchers were flagged from player's card.

I know you are an expert but TITO's can and are linked to player's cards with the information on the TITO.
link to original post



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?

I mean tell the entire story if you expect people to believe you. Did you eventually get your money? Were you 86ed? Being that resorts world has the cashless gaming system option maybe it is tied to your card, but only at that casino.
link to original post



At golden Nugget (that's in AC) the cashier refused payment until the person whose card was linked to voucher claimed it. They were in the casino and did so and I got my money.

At resorts world I was surrounded by security. I was in a realistic looking mask which made me look like a completely different person in his eighties and I talked my way out of getting 86'd by explaining someone owed me money and had given me the voucher as my payment. They took pity on me for two reasons. I looked old and feeble
Also I didn't break a sweat or twitch a muscle (the irony being I was sweating bullets under the mask but to them i looked cool calm and carefree.) They told me the voucher was gambled from a flagged card and confiscated the voucher.

DRich has already stated they can do figure out who's card was in the machine when the slot voucher waa cashed out and I know for 100% (not 99 9 but 100%) that they can and do link slot tickets.

Does every casino do it. How should I know. But it can be done and is done at various properties.

The resorts world this happened at was aqueduct queens which definitely does not have a cashless system!.

You state that you are aware of no casino that links tickets to players cards and I will accept that. I am telling you I am aware of some that do.
link to original post



So from what you described it sounds like resorts world didnít pay you?
SOOPOO
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February 15th, 2024 at 5:36:09 AM permalink
I LOVE the DO quips when he mentions wearing a mask!
Nathan
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February 15th, 2024 at 6:29:51 AM permalink
Speaking of switching seats, a guy said he saw a Mother and Daughter switch seats because the Daughter hit a Jackpot. Daughter's Husband was someone who didn't like Gambling, so the Mother and Daughter switched seats so that the Mother would claim the Jackpot so that the W2G form would go to Mother's house and not the Daughter's house. The Mother and Daughter begged the guy not to tell the Casino Staff that they switched seats. The guy responded something like,"I'm not going to tell the Casino Staff that you guys switched seats because it's really none of my business." The Mother and Daughter thanked him and he welcomed them. He said the Mother claimed the Jackpot as her own and got paid with no problem. Having a Mother claim her Daughter's Jackpot because the Husband didn't like Gambling is a lot less nefarious than someone who was circumventing a IRS debt by having her debt free Friend claim it.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
ChumpChange
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February 15th, 2024 at 7:09:17 AM permalink
But nobody knows what happened 10 days later if the casino management changed their mind after reviewing the surveillance tapes if they cared to.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 7:41:55 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: ChumpChange



The TITO reportedly has the Player's Card info embedded within it.



It does not.
link to original post



The TITO most certainly can have players card info embedded in it.

I have seen a number of different situations as a multucarder where this was a fact.
link to original post



Again, it does not. The information is in the database but not on the ticket.
link to original post



I am sorry but you are wrong based on my personal experience.

Just one example. A person who started working for me didn't listen and went OVER $3000 on a ticket and had to cash out at cashier's. This is 2013 at Golden Nugget.

Was told the voucher was registered to a different person. Lucky for him that person happened to be at the casino and they had to claim the ticket.

Absolutely impossible to claim the player's card info isn't on the TITO!!!

Another example. Running multiple cards at Resorts World, they couldn't catch me (three months of back and forth) suddenly vouchers didn't cash out at kiosk. Was it a barcode misprint? No, went to cashier and found out vouchers were flagged from player's card.

I know you are an expert but TITO's can and are linked to player's cards with the information on the TITO.
link to original post



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?

I mean tell the entire story if you expect people to believe you. Did you eventually get your money? Were you 86ed? Being that resorts world has the cashless gaming system option maybe it is tied to your card, but only at that casino.
link to original post



At golden Nugget (that's in AC) the cashier refused payment until the person whose card was linked to voucher claimed it. They were in the casino and did so and I got my money.

At resorts world I was surrounded by security. I was in a realistic looking mask which made me look like a completely different person in his eighties and I talked my way out of getting 86'd by explaining someone owed me money and had given me the voucher as my payment. They took pity on me for two reasons. I looked old and feeble
Also I didn't break a sweat or twitch a muscle (the irony being I was sweating bullets under the mask but to them i looked cool calm and carefree.) They told me the voucher was gambled from a flagged card and confiscated the voucher.

DRich has already stated they can do figure out who's card was in the machine when the slot voucher waa cashed out and I know for 100% (not 99 9 but 100%) that they can and do link slot tickets.

Does every casino do it. How should I know. But it can be done and is done at various properties.

The resorts world this happened at was aqueduct queens which definitely does not have a cashless system!.

You state that you are aware of no casino that links tickets to players cards and I will accept that. I am telling you I am aware of some that do.
link to original post



So from what you described it sounds like resorts world didnít pay you?
link to original post



That's correct they confiscated the tickets because they were flagged.

They did issue a receipt because they couldn't confiscate them without at least some record. I had to supply my name but being in disguise (a mask) due to being previously banned I obviously gave them a fake name.

I even remember the fake name I gave. I happened to have been reading a particular comic book that morning and so the comic creator was on my mind. I hope that particular comic book creator never ventures into resorts world aqueduct because he is probably highly sought after.

And yes to someone else who asked. That old man suddenly was on the most wanted. Because they later went back to the tapes and saw it was indeed the old man who was playing on multiple flagged cards.

And yeah now people will ask how I actually know that and it's a simple answer. At that time my partner (now deceased from Covid) had a relative actually working in the security department who gave us inside Intel although he refused to help us in any other way.

Remember I said they were trying everything because the "war" had with my team had been going for three months at that point. And that's partially why.

And now I am delving too far into things discussed in my AP memoirs if I ever decide to publish. And yes they are written. Covers the first 3 crazy years of my AP Career.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Slotenthusiast
Slotenthusiast
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February 15th, 2024 at 7:42:44 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Slotenthusiast



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?



Being an expert I would love to hear your credentials. As a person that has programmed these systems used in over 100,000 slot machines I can tell you that we definitely had a link between a TITO ticket and the player card that it was issued to.
link to original post



You donít need credentials. Just the ability to use google. https://www.cardlogix.com/downloads/literature/information-sheets/7200080-Cashless-Gaming-Evolution-from-TITO-to-Smart-Cards.pdf

ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:14:34 AM permalink
These Smart Cards look like a shoe-in to replace TITO's quickly, except people lose cards so easily, it could spook players with more financial intrusiveness especially concerning hand pays, and there's always the card skimmer problem that could invade casinos that has already hit WalMarts and gas stations across the country.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:36:24 AM permalink
They have to keep some form of TITO. Not everyone has bank accounts or will feel comfortable linking their banks with casino systems.

There are gamblers who aren't even comfortable giving up their ssn.

As far as the "personalized player tracking " it sounds like a wet dream for me. I am salivating at what havoc I can play with multicarding.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:40:13 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: DRich

Quote: Slotenthusiast



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?



Being an expert I would love to hear your credentials. As a person that has programmed these systems used in over 100,000 slot machines I can tell you that we definitely had a link between a TITO ticket and the player card that it was issued to.
link to original post



You donít need credentials. Just the ability to use google. https://www.cardlogix.com/downloads/literature/information-sheets/7200080-Cashless-Gaming-Evolution-from-TITO-to-Smart-Cards.pdf


link to original post



That's marketing hyperbole and reading further on their website they are referring to TITO's inability to track a players spending habits etc.

That's not the same as being able to track what player's card was in the slot when the TITO was cashed out.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Slotenthusiast
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:49:01 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: DRich

Quote: Slotenthusiast



Iím an expert, and Iím telling you that no casino Iím aware of links a player card to a ticket. Are we supposed to believe that the cashier specifically told you that the tickets couldnít be cashed because it was tied to your player card?



Being an expert I would love to hear your credentials. As a person that has programmed these systems used in over 100,000 slot machines I can tell you that we definitely had a link between a TITO ticket and the player card that it was issued to.
link to original post




You donít need credentials. Just the ability to use google. https://www.cardlogix.com/downloads/literature/information-sheets/7200080-Cashless-Gaming-Evolution-from-TITO-to-Smart-Cards.pdf


link to original post



That's marketing hyperbole and reading further on their website they are referring to TITO's inability to track a players spending habits etc.

That's not the same as being able to track what player's card was in the slot when the TITO was cashed out.
link to original post



Lol
ChumpChange
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:52:20 AM permalink
The Player's Card tells the central computer what machine you're playing and how much you won or lost, etc. The TITO has information about what machine it came from. So when they scan the voucher at the cage or kiosk, it cross references the voucher with the machine log in the central computer, so a counterfeit TITO will be stopped. But again, CTR's depend on how much cash you cross over the cage desk. So their computers will add up how much cash they've given you or you've given them each day, and that would include how much you put in the slot machines as cash.

I believe years ago you made a post about putting too much cash in one of 3 machines and you crossed the $10K line and the suits came out for an intervention.
Slotenthusiast
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February 15th, 2024 at 8:54:21 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

These Smart Cards look like a shoe-in to replace TITO's quickly, except people lose cards so easily, it could spook players with more financial intrusiveness especially concerning hand pays, and there's always the card skimmer problem that could invade casinos that has already hit WalMarts and gas stations across the country.
link to original post



The chips are encrypted and canít be skimmed. They can be shimmed but thatís something completely different, isnít a full copy and youíd know if you were using a shimmed device as your card wouldnít go in properly. From what I understand shimming is primarily done if the crook already has the card and wants to make multiple copies of it.

Eventually tap to pay using NFC will replace chips entirely.
ChumpChange
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February 15th, 2024 at 9:00:55 AM permalink
Wiki - RFID skimming http://tinyurl.com/2ywszce7
How RFID skimming is performed
Modern payment cards have a built in chip that transmits card information wirelessly. This is because it is necessary in order to enable contactless payments, which has become increasingly popular during recent years.[1] Criminals can take advantage of this new technology by using a scanner that wirelessly scans the victim's payment card in the same way that a cash register scans it, when making a contactless payment. These scanners are legal and can be bought in regular electronics stores.

Can NFC be skimmed?
Most modern mobile telephones running Android OS have a built in NFC reader that can be used to unlawfully scan contactless payment cards. A criminal can hide the scanner e.g. inside a glove or a bag, and then place it close to the victim and wirelessly steal the victim's payment card information.

RFID Blocking materials
There are RFID-blocking wallets, purses, sleeves, and cards. Wallets, purses, and sleeves work by acting as a Faraday cage that creates a screen around contactless cards, which stops electromagnetic fields interacting with the cards.
Dieter
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February 15th, 2024 at 10:40:10 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The Player's Card tells the central computer what machine you're playing and how much you won or lost, etc. The TITO has information about what machine it came from. So when they scan the voucher at the cage or kiosk, it cross references the voucher with the machine log in the central computer, so a counterfeit TITO will be stopped. But again, CTR's depend on how much cash you cross over the cage desk. So their computers will add up how much cash they've given you or you've given them each day, and that would include how much you put in the slot machines as cash.

I believe years ago you made a post about putting too much cash in one of 3 machines and you crossed the $10K line and the suits came out for an intervention.
link to original post



This doesn't sound correct to me.

I believe "counterfeit" tickets would be detected based on a database lookup stating that the voucher has already been redeemed, or is a nonexistent voucher number.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DRich
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February 15th, 2024 at 11:30:40 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast






Is it safe to say you are not an expert? The hour you spending looking at propaganda compared to the 50,000 hours I actually spent developing casino technology, we may not agree on the definition of an expert.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 11:43:22 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Slotenthusiast






Is it safe to say you are not an expert? The hour you spending looking at propaganda compared to the 50,000 hours I actually spent developing casino technology, we may not agree on the definition of an expert.
link to original post



Lol
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Sandybestdog
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February 15th, 2024 at 11:56:21 AM permalink
Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
darkoz
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February 15th, 2024 at 11:59:44 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
link to original post



Just about everyone I personally deal with are not reliable when it comes to phones. I don't know how many times a friend or family member has told me they are on 2% and expect the call to click off.

So basically you can be ready to buy something at the grocery and discover you are broke cause your phone died?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Slotenthusiast
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February 17th, 2024 at 3:34:44 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Sandybestdog

Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
link to original post




Just about everyone I personally deal with are not reliable when it comes to phones. I don't know how many times a friend or family member has told me they are on 2% and expect the call to click off.

So basically you can be ready to buy something at the grocery and discover you are broke cause your phone died?
link to original post



Maybe stop dealing with tweakers? No normal people I know who do AP have their phones with a 2 percent charge.
darkoz
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February 17th, 2024 at 3:46:31 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Sandybestdog

Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
link to original post




Just about everyone I personally deal with are not reliable when it comes to phones. I don't know how many times a friend or family member has told me they are on 2% and expect the call to click off.

So basically you can be ready to buy something at the grocery and discover you are broke cause your phone died?
link to original post



Maybe stop dealing with tweakers? No normal people I know who do AP have their phones with a 2 percent charge.
link to original post



That probably means you don't know Any normal people?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mental
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February 17th, 2024 at 4:11:20 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
link to original post

At Hard Rock Tampa, you can carry your balance from machine to machine without a TITO voucher. You only need your card and your PIN to access your funds. I don't feel this feature is very secure, and I don't use it much. If I go directly from one machine to another, there is not much opportunity for someone to download my balance. They would need one of my cards and my PIN and act quickly. If I am cashing out for a longer period, I would take a TITO voucher.

I assumed many casinos have this cashless system, but I don't get out in the B&M world very often.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
Dieter
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February 17th, 2024 at 4:40:18 AM permalink
Quote: Slotenthusiast

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Sandybestdog

Cashless gaming is farther into the future than bitcoin ever being mainstream (remember 5 years ago? Bitcoin is the future! Except it's still not being accepted anywhere). The one cashless system I use uses my phone through their app to connect to the machine. It connects via bluetooth. It's ok except it's always disconnecting if you put your phone more than a couple feet away (like your pocket). I like it cause I can keep money on there or transfer cash to my bank or if it's busy I just put the tickets on the phone and I don't have to cash them. But I see almost no one else using it. They are trying to get people to sign up for it but it will take years to change how people are used to doing things.
link to original post




Just about everyone I personally deal with are not reliable when it comes to phones. I don't know how many times a friend or family member has told me they are on 2% and expect the call to click off.

So basically you can be ready to buy something at the grocery and discover you are broke cause your phone died?
link to original post



Maybe stop dealing with tweakers? No normal people I know who do AP have their phones with a 2 percent charge.
link to original post



With the ubiquity of USB charging ports on slot machines these days, and the fact that you can pick up a battery pack for under $20... if you can afford to be in a casino, you can probably have a charged phone.

If you're paranoid, you can plug the battery pack into the machine and your phone into your battery.

I definitely don't like the idea of NFC to a phone for cash in/cash out. It seems like a lot of trouble to get around the 1000 item stacker capacity limit, which isn't really a problem for me anyway.
May the cards fall in your favor.
NDnathan
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March 27th, 2024 at 9:55:27 PM permalink
Let's say I know a solo slot ap banned strictly for winning. Did not camp out, did not try to intimidate or make other players uncomfortable to abandon play, did not flip through a million screens when adjacent machines were occupied, didn't play pit games, didn't break any rules. Just came in, made a couple rounds and left. Did everything the right way in my view.

Oddly enough there are 20 or so other "ap" at this casino, most of whom exhibit slimy vultury behavior, some of whom look homeless, etc, so never expected to get a ban.

Anyway, this person I know has thought through a change in appearance, a different id to present at the door, a different vehicle, etc. The hangup is the wgs. Most of the lucrative plays are on high denom / bet. They can not think of a way to get around the ssn requirement without arousing suspicion or running into potentially serious legal ramifications. Any thoughts here or is this person just screwed. PMs welcome
avianrandy
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March 28th, 2024 at 12:01:21 AM permalink
Do you know the other Nathan on here?
ChumpChange
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March 28th, 2024 at 12:33:23 AM permalink
Play slots in Canada where there are no hand pays.
Dieter
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March 28th, 2024 at 12:50:32 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Play slots in Canada where there are no hand pays.
link to original post



Many of my friends aren't allowed to enter Canada, period.
Those mandatory ID checks at the border really get in the way.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
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March 28th, 2024 at 1:28:42 AM permalink
One time I walked into Canada for an evening stroll, and drove back home, got home at sunrise, and a cop was at my door the next morning. Either a nosy neighbor was wondering where my car was all night or the border guards called the local police station to check in on me. Nothing happened. It was the only cop I knew who showed up. He showed up another time after I got stopped and frisked near a judges' house down the street one night. So he must have been volunteering to show up since he knew me. He has since moved on to other work or retirement, so I don't expect to see him again except incidentally.

I haven't tried to get into Canada in so long, my past experience is irrelevant, but I'll be taking a clean burner phone and not my regular phone. They confiscate phones I'm told, and they are really expensive items nowadays. I don't think it will work in Canada but it might work in the Niagara Falls area on the Canadian side, so I'll have to test it out. Anyway, it should take great photos. My Passport is good for 10 years and I got it 7 years ago. I've never driven in Canada this century, so I have no idea what the checkpoint process is like for a day tripper. I could park for free at the American casino and save $40 and walk to Canada until I get points on a Canadian casino card then I can get free parking at that casino. I'll likely need to get past the lowest tier points to get free parking, I'm not sure.
darkoz
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March 28th, 2024 at 3:49:34 AM permalink
Quote: NDnathan

Let's say I know a solo slot ap banned strictly for winning. Did not camp out, did not try to intimidate or make other players uncomfortable to abandon play, did not flip through a million screens when adjacent machines were occupied, didn't play pit games, didn't break any rules. Just came in, made a couple rounds and left. Did everything the right way in my view.

Oddly enough there are 20 or so other "ap" at this casino, most of whom exhibit slimy vultury behavior, some of whom look homeless, etc, so never expected to get a ban.

Anyway, this person I know has thought through a change in appearance, a different id to present at the door, a different vehicle, etc. The hangup is the wgs. Most of the lucrative plays are on high denom / bet. They can not think of a way to get around the ssn requirement without arousing suspicion or running into potentially serious legal ramifications. Any thoughts here or is this person just screwed. PMs welcome
link to original post



Did this happen in AC? At the Borgata?

If so you have an avenue to fight back although it will cost.

Anywhere else you are screwed.

Don't worry about mentioning if it's in AC or at the borgata. That they are banning vultures and slot AP is no secret.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Nathan
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March 28th, 2024 at 5:31:25 AM permalink
Quote: avianrandy

Do you know the other Nathan on here?
link to original post



I also noticed the similarities to my name and his name, but it could be purely coincidental. 💡
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
McSweeney
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ChumpChange
March 28th, 2024 at 5:03:50 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Play slots in Canada where there are no hand pays.
link to original post



There's still handpays in Canada. The threshold is usually $2,500.00 though varies by province. You don't have to pay tax on it, but they still take your ID and record the win in their records for what I assume to be anti-money laundering purposes.
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