itsmejeff
itsmejeff
Joined: Aug 6, 2012
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March 13th, 2023 at 7:09:43 AM permalink
Is anyone aware of any use of computer vision to analyze or reverse engineer slot machines? It seems like it would be relatively easy to use a phone to track game results.

I understand that it would not be wise to start working on something now as video is on the way out thanks to various scams and illegal activities, but has anyone done this or know of any projects that have done it?

Phones are powerful enough to track outcomes, throw them in a database, and analyze as someone plays. It would not even require play in some cases. Youtube videos for property specific products would suffice.

Is this happening?
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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March 13th, 2023 at 7:16:34 AM permalink
The newer slots are more of a mirage than actual reels spinning. Phones can only record so many frames per second and the reels may be spinning faster than that. If you want to pinpoint one slot reel pattern before playing a credit before a winning one, you might be able to vulture a slot machine, but there's many of the same symbols on each reel, so it seems to be a fool's errand.
linksjunkie
linksjunkie
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March 13th, 2023 at 7:37:03 AM permalink
I seem to recall a Russian group that used phones to somehow determine when the player should hit the spin button to have a higher than normal hit rate on a particular group of older slot machines.

I donít recall if it was discussed here or not.
Son you ainít paying attention Iím cutting you but you ainít bleeding - Foghorn Leghorn
itsmejeff
itsmejeff
Joined: Aug 6, 2012
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March 13th, 2023 at 8:07:16 AM permalink
Quote: linksjunkie

I seem to recall a Russian group that used phones to somehow determine when the player should hit the spin button to have a higher than normal hit rate on a particular group of older slot machines.

I donít recall if it was discussed here or not.
link to original post


That was due to an alleged issue in seeds that allowed for results of RNG to be predicted. A signal would let person know when to hit the button to increase chances of a big win. I have my doubts as the difference between RNG refresh rates and human reaction time is so large. Would it really be possible to find clumps big enough to change your return? I say I do not think it would possibly.

I am referring to straight use of video to figure out what games are paying and work out the math behind them based on what is shown at the end of each game. Nothing crooked.
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
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Thanks for this post from:
gordonm888
March 13th, 2023 at 8:58:13 AM permalink
Quote: itsmejeff

Quote: linksjunkie

I seem to recall a Russian group that used phones to somehow determine when the player should hit the spin button to have a higher than normal hit rate on a particular group of older slot machines.

I donít recall if it was discussed here or not.
link to original post


That was due to an alleged issue in seeds that allowed for results of RNG to be predicted. A signal would let person know when to hit the button to increase chances of a big win. I have my doubts as the difference between RNG refresh rates and human reaction time is so large. Would it really be possible to find clumps big enough to change your return? I say I do not think it would possibly.

I am referring to straight use of video to figure out what games are paying and work out the math behind them based on what is shown at the end of each game. Nothing crooked.
link to original post

To be technical, it was not the initial seed of the pRNG that they were able to guess. They reverse-engineered the software and were able to predict the complete sequence of games the pRNG would make available. Then, by sampling some results and knowing the fairly precise timing of these results, they could say with some certainty where they were in that time sequence. That allowed them to synch up with the pRNG sequence. Knowing the clock rate, they could predict when clusters of games were coming with above average RTP. They could then spin only during these +EV fluctuations.

Newer games have faster clocks, so this requires more precision. However, new games also have such enormous bonus rounds that they can result in a fairly large number of games having a average +EV.
Last edited by: Mental on Mar 13, 2023
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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March 13th, 2023 at 11:07:52 AM permalink
Quote: itsmejeff

Is anyone aware of any use of computer vision to analyze or reverse engineer slot machines? It seems like it would be relatively easy to use a phone to track game results.

I understand that it would not be wise to start working on something now as video is on the way out thanks to various scams and illegal activities, but has anyone done this or know of any projects that have done it?

Phones are powerful enough to track outcomes, throw them in a database, and analyze as someone plays. It would not even require play in some cases. Youtube videos for property specific products would suffice.

Is this happening?
link to original post



yes this is happening ... a guy on here he may or may not pop in if he sees this ill try to find his thread and post it here
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
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March 13th, 2023 at 12:49:21 PM permalink
Is there a way to work this without running afoul of "Device Law"?
May the cards fall in your favor.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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March 13th, 2023 at 12:49:52 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

To be technical, it was not the initial seed of the pRNG that they were able to guess. They reverse-engineered the software and were able to predict the complete sequence of games the pRNG would make available. Then, by sampling some results and knowing the fairly precise timing of these results, they could say with some certainty where they were in that time sequence. That allowed them to synch up with the pRNG sequence. Knowing the clock rate, they could predict when clusters of games were coming with above average RTP. They could then spin only during these +EV fluctuations.

Newer games have faster clocks, so this requires more precision. However, new games also have such enormous bonus rounds that they can result in a fairly large number of games having a average +EV.
link to original post



Thanks for this, best explanation of the Russian hack method that I've seen.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: linksjunkie

I seem to recall a Russian group that used phones to somehow determine when the player should hit the spin button to have a higher than normal hit rate on a particular group of older slot machines.

I donít recall if it was discussed here or not.
link to original post



Yes, I believe those were mainly on the Aristocrat Mark IV machines. When those were made they were not required to run the RNG constantly. Or, if they were running it it was so slow it could be timed.
Order from chaos
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:44:29 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Is there a way to work this without running afoul of "Device Law"?
link to original post

Offshore online comes to mind.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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