LoquaciousMoFW
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Mission146MichaelBluejay
January 13th, 2023 at 6:45:05 PM permalink
If this idea holds up to the IRS's inevitable challenge, it could be a game changer. Vital Vegas via casino.org: https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/new-slot-machine-helps-players-avoid-w-2g-tax-form-headaches/
heatmap
heatmap
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January 13th, 2023 at 7:00:08 PM permalink
Quote: LoquaciousMoFW

If this idea holds up to the IRS's inevitable challenge, it could be a game changer. Vital Vegas via casino.org: https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/new-slot-machine-helps-players-avoid-w-2g-tax-form-headaches/
link to original post



this is NOTHING new

i live in PA and have spoken with a person who manages a small private club which has VGT machines in it. They have the option to choose machines which pays a maximum of lower than the legal limit so they can dodge the tax forms and what not and that is from the manufacturer
LoquaciousMoFW
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MichaelBluejay
January 13th, 2023 at 7:09:06 PM permalink
I've never seen a machine before which can (purportedly) pay out a $25,000 bonus without a W-2. Setting machines to payout a max of $1199 is indeed old hat.
Dieter
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January 13th, 2023 at 7:09:27 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: LoquaciousMoFW

If this idea holds up to the IRS's inevitable challenge, it could be a game changer. Vital Vegas via casino.org: https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/new-slot-machine-helps-players-avoid-w-2g-tax-form-headaches/
link to original post



this is NOTHING new

i live in PA and have spoken with a person who manages a small private club which has VGT machines in it. They have the option to choose machines which pays a maximum of lower than the legal limit so they can dodge the tax forms and what not and that is from the manufacturer
link to original post



I thought the PA small private club VGT's were capped at $1000 prize by law.
Perhaps we're thinking of different things.
May the cards fall in your favor.
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January 13th, 2023 at 7:11:31 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: heatmap

Quote: LoquaciousMoFW

If this idea holds up to the IRS's inevitable challenge, it could be a game changer. Vital Vegas via casino.org: https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/new-slot-machine-helps-players-avoid-w-2g-tax-form-headaches/
link to original post



this is NOTHING new

i live in PA and have spoken with a person who manages a small private club which has VGT machines in it. They have the option to choose machines which pays a maximum of lower than the legal limit so they can dodge the tax forms and what not and that is from the manufacturer
link to original post



I thought the PA small private club VGT's were capped at $1000 prize by law.
Perhaps we're thinking of different things.
link to original post



well he was explaining it to me ... he may have not known and i definitely dont have knowledge of the laws that particularly

but he specifically mentioned it had to do with taxes
Wizard
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MichaelBluejay
January 13th, 2023 at 7:21:13 PM permalink
I've had a similar idea for many years. Those in the industry I've bounced it off of just poo-poo'd it, with explanation.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
LoquaciousMoFW
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January 13th, 2023 at 7:45:09 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've had a similar idea for many years. Those in the industry I've bounced it off of just poo-poo'd it, with explanation.
link to original post

Yes, I can't imagine that anybody in the industry would want to set up a showdown with the Feds, which this will do. I wonder if the slot company had to offer an indemnity agreement to get the machines placed. Even if it is technically constructed to fall outside the reporting requirements, courts can and do cut through such constructions. For example of that, see the Areo case analyzed here: https://copyrightem.com/wnet-v-aereo-is-renting-a-tv-antenna-copyright-infringement The case eventually made it to the US Supreme Court; where the majority basically said, "if it looks, like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck" (not exactly a shining example of legal reasoning, IMHO). Wikipedia has a decent writeup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Cos.,_Inc._v._Aereo,_Inc.
Wizard
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January 13th, 2023 at 7:56:06 PM permalink
I hope if this does go to the courts, the machine maker makes the point about the $1,199 jackpots in plain view. Everybody knows the reason for that number -- evading taxes. I have won significant amounts in table game tournaments and the winners are always paid in non-neg chips, so the winner can avoid the tax. One can't be blamed for pushing the envelope a little further.
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DJTeddyBear
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January 13th, 2023 at 8:25:40 PM permalink
Very cool idea.

My only comment/complaint is that one of the screens indicated that the average payout is $1000.

Since $1000 is the top payout on the bonus, how could that also be the average?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
rsactuary
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January 13th, 2023 at 9:08:56 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Very cool idea.

My only comment/complaint is that one of the screens indicated that the average payout is $1000.

Since $1000 is the top payout on the bonus, how could that also be the average?
link to original post



One of the options is $100+ a spin
AxelWolf
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January 14th, 2023 at 12:22:57 AM permalink
I just have a feeling that if this catches on and you FK with the IRS they will FK back harder and do something like lower the W2g threshold to 500, or do something worst.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Talldude90
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January 14th, 2023 at 2:12:38 AM permalink
Don't you mean 600, cause they seem to like that number as of late XD.

But seriously, I wish more machines did this. I hesitate to play even vulterable ops that risk (with a reasonable chance) giving a W2G win. Even after taking it down you are out of action 30+ minutes.
Mental
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January 17th, 2023 at 4:17:13 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Very cool idea.

My only comment/complaint is that one of the screens indicated that the average payout is $1000.

Since $1000 is the top payout on the bonus, how could that also be the average?
link to original post

The $100 prize also includes one free spin, so that is basically a $1100 win. So the average can be $1000 if they rig the probabilities right.
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ChumpChange
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January 17th, 2023 at 4:37:32 PM permalink
25 years ago the slot jackpots on most machines were $1,199. In my local casino today, most slot jackpots are over $5K or $10K or even $15K. Only 25 cent VP has jackpots under $1,200, and that's only on some days. I may just stop inserting my Player's Card so my action doesn't show up as a monthly total on the Win-Loss statements.
Mission146
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ChumpChange
January 18th, 2023 at 6:21:44 AM permalink
On this machine, taxes and whether or not I think this machine will start a general trend:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/spread-in-tax-evading-in-slot-machines/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mental
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January 18th, 2023 at 7:28:42 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

On this machine, taxes and whether or not I think this machine will start a general trend:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/spread-in-tax-evading-in-slot-machines/
link to original post

Nice article!

I want to emphasize an important aspect of the proposed IRS change. While they would drop the reporting threshold to $600, they would also net your W/L for the day. I calculated that this would have reduced my W-2G total for the year by half. So, a gambler like me would benefit greatly from the proposed change that everyone is bellyaching about.

I once received 36 W-2Gs totaling $91.378.48 in a single losing session. I would have received zero W-2Gs under the proposed change to IRS regulations! Sadly, gamblers and the casino industry fought this proposal.

It is congress that is mostly to blame for the current situation. Congress passes tax legislation and the IRS does its best to implement the spirit of the law. Scalia was the gamblers friend on the Supreme Court, but he is long gone.

I think your estimates for numbers of W-2Gs filed by a casino in a month are way too low.
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Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 7:45:19 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: Mission146

On this machine, taxes and whether or not I think this machine will start a general trend:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/spread-in-tax-evading-in-slot-machines/
link to original post

Nice article!

I want to make an important aspect of the proposed IRS change. While they would drop the reporting threshold to $600, they would also net your W/L for the day. I calculated that this would have reduced my W-2G total for the year by half. So, a gambler like me would benefit greatly from the proposed change that everyone is bellyaching about.

I once received 36 W-2Gs totaling $91.378.48 in a single losing session. I would have received zero W-2Gs under the proposed change to IRS regulations! Sadly, gamblers and the casino industry fought this proposal.

It is congress that is mostly to blame for the current situation. Congress passes tax legislation and the IRS does its best to implement the spirit of the law. Scalia was the gamblers friend on the Supreme Court, but he is long gone.

I think your estimates for numbers of W-2Gs filed by a casino in a month are way too low.
link to original post



Thank you very much for saying so!

That's an excellent addition to the drop to $600 that escaped my attention. That said, it does somewhat strengthen my position that the IRS has come to depend on the actual profit/loss for gamblers not being reported for the year as that would likely result in less revenue. I tend to think a huge chunk of their revenue comes from gamblers who don't know how to write it off with their losses, don't care to take the time to do so or from people to whom the Standard Deduction would be superior anyway.

Of course, with the Standard Deduction, that person could just have a completely truthful and accurate gambling log that also includes winning days, just with losing days to more than cover those winning days as well as any W2-G such that the amount now exceeds the standard deduction. The optimal decision would certainly depend on the exact numbers involved and starting income (presumably from wages) could also be a factor in it.

It's difficult to argue with the casino industry fighting the proposal, from their perspective, because $1,200 is already ridiculous as it is. There's no denying that the W2-G mechanism increases available staff needed, wait times, paperwork, reporting, accounting and, perhaps most importantly to them, decreases the player's time on device.

By a major casino? Do you think it could be tens of thousands? I suppose some months it could. I guess I should have taken into account how many HL players there would be compared to other areas.

Even with the net W/L, perhaps the problem is that could be rife for deliberate malfeasance, and even absent that, would be extremely difficult to strictly track anyway. It would end up having to go to an all electronic system, where---if not every single bet---every buy in and cash out is accounted for as belonging to a specific individual.

In any event, since net gambling losses for a year (other than to offset winnings) do not constitute a loss of income, for recreational gamblers, I don't think net wins should constitute an increase in income, either. That failing, they should just make it 5k.

Anyway, given that you're talking about 91.3k+ in a single day, I assume you keep pretty detailed logs anyway.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Dieter
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Mission146
January 18th, 2023 at 7:45:40 AM permalink
$4.19 for the eggs sounds unrealistic.
In the last week, I've seen $4.99, $5.99, $6.99, and $8.99. I remember a promotional price of $3.99 a few weeks back.
Not faulting you for choosing it.

Crack on a flat surface, not the convex edge of a pan or bowl. Pull the shell apart, away from where the crack has formed. Marveling at the simulation of tectonic forces is optional, as are earthquake noises.

I wanted to find out how much a rainbow weighed, so I put a scale under one end.
They're pretty light.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:08:08 AM permalink
It's hyper-eggflation. Now if only the jackpots went up 5 or 10 fold, but they'd want to increase the denomination by 5 or 10 fold too.
Mental
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Mission146Mukke
January 18th, 2023 at 8:08:24 AM permalink
The 2015 proposed procedure was this:

If a player (who is tracked electronically in a B&M casino with a players card) hits for more than $1200, the machine will lock up and staff will ID that person but no W-2G will be issued. The jackpot can be paid as credits or as cash.

At the end of the calendar day, the casino would issue a W-2G by mail if the session net was over $600 whether or not any $1200+ jackpot was hit. The total W-2G paperwork would be dramatically reduced. There would never be more than one W-2G per player per casino per calendar day.

Any untracked play would default to the existing rules. This was proposed seven years ago, so I need to find the actual proposed rules.
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Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:10:46 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

$4.19 for the eggs sounds unrealistic.
In the last week, I've seen $4.99, $5.99, $6.99, and $8.99. I remember a promotional price of $3.99 a few weeks back.
Not faulting you for choosing it.

Crack on a flat surface, not the convex edge of a pan or bowl. Pull the shell apart, away from where the crack has formed. Marveling at the simulation of tectonic forces is optional, as are earthquake noises.

I wanted to find out how much a rainbow weighed, so I put a scale under one end.
They're pretty light.

link to original post



I don't know; that's what Kroger had on their site. I will attempt to simulate online pick-up orders from ten different Kroger locations:

Zanesville, OH---$4.69
Zionsville, IN---$3.39
Wheeling, WV---$3.59
Bellevue, KY----$3.99
Saint Clairsville, OH---$3.99
Nashville-Davidson, TN---$4.49
Chesapeake, VA---$4.49
East Lansing, MI---$3.29
Morgantown, WV---$3.69
Charleston, WV---$4.49

This is why Kroger is your Total Value Leader. I should also mention that, with every purchase, you amass Kroger Fuel Points. Your Kroger Card will also give you access to both a website (desktop and mobile friendly) and Kroger mobile app, which consistently offers tremendous weekly specials, including some that are digital-only. More than that, frequent shopping with your Kroger card will also result in special mail coupons that are custom-tailored to the items that you and your family use the most!

Thank you for shopping at Kroger!

Thank you for the egg-cracking tip! When making an omelet, one of the most important components, regardless of its contents, are the seasonings and spices used to enhance the flavor of the eggs and other ingredients. Fortunately, Kroger has an awe-inspiring collection of spices from some of the nation's most-popular brands, but if you're looking to save, almost all of these are available in store brand, as well. Select spices can also be found in the discount aisle of participating stores, some for as low as $1.00 per jar.

Thank you again for choosing Kroger, your Total Value Leader! Please remember that all fuel purchases at any Kroger branded gas station, or participating affiliate, will also earn you Fuel Points!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:14:53 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

The 2015 proposed procedure was this:

If a player (who is tracked electronically in a B&M casino with a players card) hits for more than $1200, the machine will lock up and staff will ID that person but no W-2G will be issued. The jackpot can be paid as credits or as cash.

At the end of the calendar day, the casino would issue a W-2G by mail if the session net was over $600 whether or not any $1200+ jackpot was hit. The total W-2G paperwork would be dramatically reduced. There would never be more than one W-2G per player per casino per calendar day.

Any untracked play would default to the existing rules. This was proposed seven years ago, so I need to find the actual proposed rules.
link to original post



No more playing on a card for me! As a low-limit grinder, it would have actually resulted in more W2-G's in my case, especially at the time when most of my gambling activities were in traditional land-based casinos.

Of course, I guess many of those days could be a sort of, "Shoot for the moon or make it $599," sort of thing.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mental
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Mission146
January 18th, 2023 at 8:18:06 AM permalink
The IRS also proposed a new rule for safe harbor session definition. It was not implemented, so far as I know. It would have allowed all play in a calendar day at one casino to be lumped together as one session. I sometimes have a situation where with money goes into a slot game before midnight, then more money goes in after midnight, then a payout occurs. This can happen for BJ or UTHE games, for example.

"The IRS will not challenge a taxpayer痴 use of the definition of a session of play set forth in section 3.04 of this revenue procedure in calculating a wagering gain or wagering loss from electronically tracked slot machine play provided that the taxpayer complies with the provisions of section 6.01 through section 6.04 of this revenue procedure."

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-15-21.pdf
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Mental
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:27:34 AM permalink
Many years ago, I spent six hours chasing a progressive jackpot from 6am to noon midweek. I hit 8 jackpots and I could tell by sequence numbers on the slips that only 5 other jackpots were hit in the casino. Any decent sized casino issues hundreds of jackpots on a Saturday.
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Mukke
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:28:34 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

The 2015 proposed procedure was this:

If a player (who is tracked electronically in a B&M casino with a players card) hits for more than $1200, the machine will lock up and staff will ID that person but no W-2G will be issued. The jackpot can be paid as credits or as cash.

At the end of the calendar day, the casino would issue a W-2G by mail if the session net was over $600 whether or not any $1200+ jackpot was hit. The total W-2G paperwork would be dramatically reduced. There would never be more than one W-2G per player per casino per calendar day.

Any untracked play would default to the existing rules. This was proposed seven years ago, so I need to find the actual proposed rules.
link to original post



This actually makes way more sense. Probably makes too much sense to ever become law...


Quote: Mission146


No more playing on a card for me! As a low-limit grinder, it would have actually resulted in more W2-G's in my case, especially at the time when most of my gambling activities were in traditional land-based casinos.

Of course, I guess many of those days could be a sort of, "Shoot for the moon or make it $599," sort of thing.
link to original post



While it might not be good for you (nor me) it would capture a much more valid picture of gambling wins/losses. As someone who does AP and my taxes as best as I can, I would love to see this implemented and just go with the W2-Gs and simply report this and be done with it.
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:33:57 AM permalink
Quote: Mukke



While it might not be good for you (nor me) it would capture a much more valid picture of gambling wins/losses. As someone who does AP and my taxes as best as I can, I would love to see this implemented and just go with the W2-Gs and simply report this and be done with it.
link to original post



(Quote clipped, relevance & removal of quote-in-quote)

It has its ups and downs.

The downside for me would simply be having more (physical) W2-G's to specifically report and have to deal with. Of course, it wouldn't change my faithful and accurate reporting of my losing days based on my personal records, which is good; it would simply require me to keep those details of losing days more faithfully and more accurately, which would likely result in them being greater in number.

I would also have to double-check those faithful and accurate records to ensure that I am not giving the appearance of being in two places simultaneously.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:35:24 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Many years ago, I spent six hours chasing a progressive jackpot from 6am to noon midweek. I hit 8 jackpots and I could tell by sequence numbers on the slips that only 5 other jackpots were hit in the casino. Any decent sized casino issues hundreds of jackpots on a Saturday.
link to original post



I believe it. I said, "Hundreds or thousands," in the article, which could include any number up to 9,999. I acknowledge my mistake insofar as that the largest of casinos could perhaps issue tens of thousands of W2-G's monthly.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mental
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Mission146
January 18th, 2023 at 9:19:27 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146



I would also have to double-check those faithful and accurate records to ensure that I am not giving the appearance of being in two places simultaneously.
link to original post

Your not really trying if you have never gambled in three states in one day.

I am sympathetic to those who might be harmed by a W-2G for a $600 session win. I am just saying the overall number of W-2Gs would be drastically reduced under the session rules that were proposed. There are a number of casinos offering self-pay jackpots. Under the proposed regulations, I think this would have become standard and would speed up play in B&M casinos. Only one US online casino that I play at makes me stop play for a few seconds to acknowledge receipt of a W-2G jackpot. I hate the brief unnecessary stoppage, but I have waited more than half an hour for jackpots to be paid in B&M casinos many times.

https://www.hardrockhotelsacramento.com/casino/self-pay-jackpot
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Once enrolled, you simply insert your Wild Card into your favorite slot machine, input your PIN, press the download button, transfer your jackpot directly to the slot machine and play.
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Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 9:31:02 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: Mission146



I would also have to double-check those faithful and accurate records to ensure that I am not giving the appearance of being in two places simultaneously.
link to original post

Your not really trying if you have never gambled in three states in one day.

I am sympathetic to those who might be harmed by a W-2G for a $600 session win. I am just saying the overall number of W-2Gs would be drastically reduced under the session rules that were proposed. There are a number of casinos offering self-pay jackpots. Under the proposed regulations, I think this would have become standard and would speed up play Only one US online casino that I play at makes me stop play for a few seconds to acknowledge receipt of a W-2G jackpot. I hate the brief unnecessary stoppage, but I have waited more than half an hour for jackpots to be paid in B&M casinos many times.
link to original post



Oh, three states is a cinch! I believe my three state combinations, so far, have been:

WV, PA, OH
NV, PA, WV
PA, NJ, LA
WV, PA, FL
MD, NJ, CT
PA, WV, MD

I think I have also done OH, WV, PA & MD in one, but I couldn't swear to it. Driving and blasting music all the way is the best part! Scouting for new machine opportunities is second best. The actual playing slightly outranks taking a leak...exception to really good leaks.

I think there are also state combos in the Midwest and Southwest that would be pretty easy for a trifecta, if not a four-banger.

I agree with you that the overall number would be reduced. Not only would multiple in a day automatically become no greater than one, but also, one would sometimes become zero.

As in the article, I think the one potential downside for the IRS would be in the fact that they wouldn't make as much money. I should strongly suspect that many people who have paid on W2-G's (despite taking a net loss for the day, or having a net win of less than $600) would not have received a W2-G at all in this scenario.

I have been presented with evidence, not my own, that would lead me to believe than FanDuel occasionally stops players for longer than several seconds. In fact, an unwary player might believe that his/her jackpot didn't happen at all or was some sort of mistake.

Look forward to an upcoming article about some of the tactics that so-called, 'Regulated,' online casinos are doing. However, that is pending the resolution of someone's account who has reported one of the more egregious tactics to me, so that could be awhile. I obviously won't be publishing this individual's name, but even the details might be enough to link her to the account and result in further unwarranted delays or nefarious tactics.
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Mental
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January 18th, 2023 at 9:43:08 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I have been presented with evidence, not my own, that would lead me to believe than FanDuel occasionally stops players for longer than several seconds. In fact, an unwary player might believe that his/her jackpot didn't happen at all or was some sort of mistake.

Yes, when you hit a jackpot some online casinos will close the game you are playing even before you see the jackpot that you won and the combination that won it. If this happens in the last spin of a bonus round, you cannot even see the winning combination when you reopen the game.

I have tried in vain to explain to a casino that a slot machine is required to show the results of a wager in NV regulations. If the online casino has a replay feature, then you can go back and verify the result. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing that you were paid correctly. This problem should be addressed in the regulations.
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January 18th, 2023 at 9:51:22 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Zanesville, OH---$4.69
Zionsville, IN---$3.39
Wheeling, WV---$3.59
Bellevue, KY----$3.99
Saint Clairsville, OH---$3.99
Nashville-Davidson, TN---$4.49
Chesapeake, VA---$4.49
East Lansing, MI---$3.29
Morgantown, WV---$3.69
Charleston, WV---$4.49

This is why Kroger is your Total Value Leader.
link to original post


(snippity-doo-dah)

Oddly enough, exactly none of my travels last week came near the delivery zones for those fine stores.
I have started keeping eggs longer; where I used to discard unused eggs after a week or two (I prefer to be a stickler for freshness), I'm increasingly tolerant of older eggs.

My preferred retailer usually has a 12-box for $4.99 these days, and just 2 or 3 days past laying, plus a more useful loyalty program for my needs. I can pay less elsewhere for week-old.
While inconvenient (and less to my taste), there are some hen-keepers in the extended circle of acquaintance, some of whom dropped off a 30-box to the house last week.

I'm out of apology jokes. Sorry.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 9:53:06 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: Mission146

I have been presented with evidence, not my own, that would lead me to believe than FanDuel occasionally stops players for longer than several seconds. In fact, an unwary player might believe that his/her jackpot didn't happen at all or was some sort of mistake.

Yes, when you hit a jackpot some online casinos will close the game you are playing even before you see the jackpot that you won and the combination that won it. If this happens in the last spin of a bonus round, you cannot even see the winning combination when you reopen the game.

I have tried in vain to explain to a casino that a slot machine is required to show the results of a wager in NV regulations. If the online casino has a replay feature, then you can go back and verify the result. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing that you were paid correctly. This problem should be addressed in the regulations.
link to original post



That is exactly the evidence that I saw. After that, this individual then had to take up the matter with Chat and still cannot see the jackpot as available balance until submitting requested documents and it being added back in.

I seriously doubt that the regulations are going to address much of anything. I suppose players would have meaningful protection in Nevada, perhaps, were online casino products legal there---but from what I have seen in other states, you might as well go complain to a tree as complain to Gaming. Of course, one has to try, when needed.

"The Wall"-Kansas
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Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:01:54 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter


(snippity-doo-dah)

Oddly enough, exactly none of my travels last week came near the delivery zones for those fine stores.
I have started keeping eggs longer; where I used to discard unused eggs after a week or two (I prefer to be a stickler for freshness), I'm increasingly tolerant of older eggs.

My preferred retailer usually has a 12-box for $4.99 these days, and just 2 or 3 days past laying, plus a more useful loyalty program for my needs. I can pay less elsewhere for week-old.
While inconvenient (and less to my taste), there are some hen-keepers in the extended circle of acquaintance, some of whom dropped off a 30-box to the house last week.

I'm out of apology jokes. Sorry.

link to original post



(Snippety-Ay)

I can't guarantee that all of those stores are fine. If I'm being honest, one area in which Kroger could use improvement, as a brand, is in the cleanliness and equipment in their restroom facilities. In the State of Ohio, the Fire Marshal also kind of doubles for health and safety inspections (on the state level) and some of the situations I have seen persist in Kroger bathrooms, for years, would by themselves had resulted in the hotel requiring a re-inspection were it our bathroom that had the violation.

Of course, that the owner was a total d*&)^%^& to the Fire Marshal at every possible opportunity also certainly didn't help. Sometimes, people create their own problems.

When I'm in an egg-eating mood; I tend to go through them pretty quickly. I don't think it has ever taken me a week to go through a dozen eggs, even when single and living alone all of those years ago.

I'm honestly not sure what they are going for near me, but I know it's over $5.00. I haven't eaten any eggs the last few weeks as I have been too lazy to boil them. My diet regimen calls for them as a protein source, but they have been replaced.

Giant Eagle is the main place I shop currently. Their FuelPerks program is pretty nice, not for the fuel, but because you can instead take a discount on your grocery order. I tend to choose that option because their gas seems to get less MPG than Sunoco or Marathon, but that could just be sample sizing. I tried to keep driving conditions and distance as equivalent as possible, but it was enough of a difference to seem obvious, imo.

"It's No Good"-Depeche Mode

ADDED: Nothing to apologize for; it was a fair challenge.
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Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:03:02 AM permalink
The songs don't mean anything, by the way. I just think it would be fun to include whatever song happens to be playing when I start typing a post. I think I was doing that, at one point in the past, but forgot about it.
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Mental
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:03:13 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: Mental

Quote: Mission146

I have been presented with evidence, not my own, that would lead me to believe than FanDuel occasionally stops players for longer than several seconds. In fact, an unwary player might believe that his/her jackpot didn't happen at all or was some sort of mistake.

Yes, when you hit a jackpot some online casinos will close the game you are playing even before you see the jackpot that you won and the combination that won it. If this happens in the last spin of a bonus round, you cannot even see the winning combination when you reopen the game.

I have tried in vain to explain to a casino that a slot machine is required to show the results of a wager in NV regulations. If the online casino has a replay feature, then you can go back and verify the result. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing that you were paid correctly. This problem should be addressed in the regulations.
link to original post



That is exactly the evidence that I saw. After that, this individual then had to take up the matter with Chat and still cannot see the jackpot as available balance until submitting requested documents and it being added back in.

I seriously doubt that the regulations are going to address much of anything. I suppose players would have meaningful protection in Nevada, perhaps, were online casino products legal there---but from what I have seen in other states, you might as well go complain to a tree as complain to Gaming. Of course, one has to try, when needed.

"The Wall"-Kansas
link to original post

I was always paid a jackpot when I signed off on a W-2G.. The site in question has a transaction log, so I can see what I was paid. I just have no way of knowing that I was paid the right amount.

I would propose a regulation that says the game must finish all display activity before terminate the game and pop up a W-2G acknowledgement form. This should be simple to implement. Just wait until the point where the machine is about to give you a green light to make another bet.

BTW, trees have more empathy than the folks who staff support groups at online casinos.
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:04:59 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: Mental

Your not really trying if you have never gambled in three states in one day.



Oh, three states is a cinch! I believe my three state combinations, so far, have been:

WV, PA, OH
NV, PA, WV
PA, NJ, LA
WV, PA, FL

MD, NJ, CT
PA, WV, MD



Most impressive, especially with the ones I have bolded!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:10:58 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

I was always paid a jackpot when I signed off on a W-2G.. The site in question has a transaction log, so I can see what I was paid. I just have no way of knowing that I was paid the right amount.

I would propose a regulation that says the game must finish all display activity before terminate the game and pop up a W-2G acknowledgement form. This should be simple to implement. Just wait until the point where the machine is about to give you a green light to make another bet.

BTW, trees have more empathy than the folks who staff support groups at online casinos.
link to original post



(Quote clipped to remove quote-in-quote)

I have not had the good fortune to generate a W-2G as a result of online play. Actually, I'm not sure that I have ever bet an amount (based on the game, as well) that such would ever have been possible. I may or may not have. I plead the Fifth.

I agree with that proposal entirely. Actually, what I would propose is that online gambling not result in W2-G's whatsoever as the Annual Report should be assumed to be accurate. Beyond that, every online casino has a record of annual deposits and withdrawals, so one could argue that any funds that have not been withdrawn constitute money still in play. For that reason, I would suggest a single W2-G form for the entire year in the event that withdrawals exceed deposits by $600, or more.

Beyond that, the online casino would already have all of the information applicable to that player, so they could do their reporting without need of the player to be immediately involved, anyway.

"Good"-Better Than Ezra
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:35:19 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


When I'm in an egg-eating mood; I tend to go through them pretty quickly. I don't think it has ever taken me a week to go through a dozen eggs, even when single and living alone all of those years ago.

I'm honestly not sure what they are going for near me, but I know it's over $5.00. I haven't eaten any eggs the last few weeks as I have been too lazy to boil them. My diet regimen calls for them as a protein source, but they have been replaced.

Giant Eagle is the main place I shop currently. Their FuelPerks program is pretty nice, not for the fuel, but because you can instead take a discount on your grocery order. I tend to choose that option because their gas seems to get less MPG than Sunoco or Marathon, but that could just be sample sizing. I tried to keep driving conditions and distance as equivalent as possible, but it was enough of a difference to seem obvious, imo.

"It's No Good"-Depeche Mode

ADDED: Nothing to apologize for; it was a fair challenge.
link to original post



(There's a snip-snip on my shoulder)

I seem to recall $5.99-$6.99 my last trip through your way.
Freshness is critical to avoid gastric distress with raw and rawish USDA Eggs. If your preferred egg-eatin' is Tamago Kake Gohan (TKG - raw egg over rice), this means finding a supply you trust not to give you salmonella.
Sunny side up to crown kimchi fried rice is much more forgiving.
Fried over-hard is practically safe, but I make breakfast sandwiches less often than I probably should.

You want to impress me with 3 states? Make it UT-AK-HI.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:45:07 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter



(There's a snip-snip on my shoulder)

I seem to recall $5.99-$6.99 my last trip through your way.
Freshness is critical to avoid gastric distress with raw and rawish USDA Eggs. If your preferred egg-eatin' is Tamago Kake Gohan (TKG - raw egg over rice), this means finding a supply you trust not to give you salmonella.
Sunny side up to crown kimchi fried rice is much more forgiving.
Fried over-hard is practically safe, but I make breakfast sandwiches less often than I probably should.

You want to impress me with 3 states? Make it UT-AK-HI.

link to original post



(Funny, mine has a clip-clip)

I'd believe it. I also don't know what brands you are looking at as I tend to default to the cheapest available brand of brown eggs. I'll sometimes eat white eggs, however, if the price difference is significant enough that I can't justify doing otherwise. It's also important to look at the six-packs, which are generally more expensive on a per-egg basis, but are sometimes less than the cheapest 12-pack divided by two.

I could see where dining on raw eggs would result in the need to be more discerning. I must say that doesn't apply to me. My gag reflex (specifically when it comes to texture) leaves a little to be desired.

Utah has a Bingo Hall now! Sort of. You're paying for dinner; Bingo with cash prizes just happens to be included in that dinner. Downright scandalous, if you ask me. Almost as scandalous as a bar pouring liquor from outside of the curtain, but not quite.

Alaska has some gambling if Pull Tabs count. Some of the Native American smokeshops and general stores are also putting in what purport to be, "Games of Skill," now, so there is some gambling available. I suppose Alaska gets bragging points for distance covered, but not for the ability to gamble. Hawaii is probably the real problem; I would have to find a home poker game to crash.

"Lightning Crashes"-Live
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January 18th, 2023 at 10:55:48 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


(Funny, mine has a clip-clip)

I'd believe it. I also don't know what brands you are looking at as I tend to default to the cheapest available brand of brown eggs. I'll sometimes eat white eggs, however, if the price difference is significant enough that I can't justify doing otherwise. It's also important to look at the six-packs, which are generally more expensive on a per-egg basis, but are sometimes less than the cheapest 12-pack divided by two.

I could see where dining on raw eggs would result in the need to be more discerning. I must say that doesn't apply to me. My gag reflex (specifically when it comes to texture) leaves a little to be desired.

Utah has a Bingo Hall now! Sort of. You're paying for dinner; Bingo with cash prizes just happens to be included in that dinner. Downright scandalous, if you ask me. Almost as scandalous as a bar pouring liquor from outside of the curtain, but not quite.

Alaska has some gambling if Pull Tabs count. Some of the Native American smokeshops and general stores are also putting in what purport to be, "Games of Skill," now, so there is some gambling available. I suppose Alaska gets bragging points for distance covered, but not for the ability to gamble. Hawaii is probably the real problem; I would have to find a home poker game to crash.

"Lightning Crashes"-Live
link to original post



(... clip-clops on my feet ...)

It takes longer than that to hit a decent number of plays in Montana.

For my preferred brand of eggs, I'm actually looking at the specific farm. There's one that is centrally located, and packages under various store labels, plus their own. I worry less about the printing on the box and more about the uncontaminated eggs inside are hid.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 11:03:45 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter



(... clip-clops on my feet ...)

It takes longer than that to hit a decent number of plays in Montana.

For my preferred brand of eggs, I'm actually looking at the specific farm. There's one that is centrally located, and packages under various store labels, plus their own. I worry less about the printing on the box and more about the uncontaminated eggs inside are hid.
link to original post



(Chips and chops in my seat)

Does it? I'd imagine practice makes perfect. If it's anything like the PA Skill Games, most of it when you have a ton of locations, all with a few machines is knowing which locations generate the highest volume of players and are worth stopping at multiple times within x period of time.

My main concern is the price on the package. Other than preferring brown eggs (especially for hard-boiled) to white, it would take an exhaustive analysis of many attributes for me to be able to justify a higher price than the alternative. Some differences aren't as clear as the difference between Ivory Concentrated Dishwashing Detergent, as compared to other brands. Also, Oikos Triple Zero is the best 0 Added Sugar, 0 Fat and 0 Artificial Sweetener yogurt anywhere near its price point.

"How Deep is Your Love"-Bee Gees
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Joeman
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January 18th, 2023 at 12:25:17 PM permalink
Since y'all (oops, that was in the other thread) you fine gentlemen are talking about eggs, the last two times I went to the store to get eggs, the store brand, generic white eggs were significantly more ($1-$2/dzn) than the organic/free-range/"we pet the chickens and tell them they are doing a good job" brown eggs.

A guy goes into a deli, sits down and asks the waiter what he recommends. The waiter replies, "Well our special today is tongue. I've tried it and it's pretty tasty." The guy wrinkles up his face, "Tongue?! How disgusting! I would never eat anything that came out of an animal's mouth!!! Give me two eggs, over easy!"
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MichaelBluejay
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January 18th, 2023 at 12:28:42 PM permalink
I haven't bought eggs since the 80s, so I'm pretty unconcerned about egg prices.

Getting back to the tax topic, I'd like to repeat something I said in my gambling taxes article: Gambling taxes are unfair and ought to be abolished, because gambling winnings aren't income. The net of all Americans' work output per year (measured in salary) is positive, so it should be taxed. But the net of all Americans' gambling activity per year is NEGATIVE. Thus, there is no income to tax.
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January 18th, 2023 at 12:38:33 PM permalink
For precedent this is the way Japanese Pachinko machines work.

Japanese law says no single spin can win more than 15 units (yeah it's way low. They have a bunch of weird laws).

To get around this you pay for the spins during the jackpot bonus (called the "big chance" which is probably the direct translation for jackpot).

So if you win 15 free spins you pay credits each spin and can win from zero to fifteen each spin)

The odds are in your favor during the big chance (it's not unusual to lose a few hundred spins but suddenly during the big chance 90% of the spins are winners)
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January 18th, 2023 at 1:05:52 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: Dieter



(... clip-clops on my feet ...)

It takes longer than that to hit a decent number of plays in Montana.

For my preferred brand of eggs, I'm actually looking at the specific farm. There's one that is centrally located, and packages under various store labels, plus their own. I worry less about the printing on the box and more about the uncontaminated eggs inside are hid.
link to original post



(Chips and chops in my seat)

Does it? I'd imagine practice makes perfect. If it's anything like the PA Skill Games, most of it when you have a ton of locations, all with a few machines is knowing which locations generate the highest volume of players and are worth stopping at multiple times within x period of time.

My main concern is the price on the package. Other than preferring brown eggs (especially for hard-boiled) to white, it would take an exhaustive analysis of many attributes for me to be able to justify a higher price than the alternative. Some differences aren't as clear as the difference between Ivory Concentrated Dishwashing Detergent, as compared to other brands. Also, Oikos Triple Zero is the best 0 Added Sugar, 0 Fat and 0 Artificial Sweetener yogurt anywhere near its price point.

"How Deep is Your Love"-Bee Gees
link to original post



Ok, gambling, if I must:
Sure. It says "casino". In Montana American English (is that a thing?), that means "small bar with 20* slot machines". You might find 1 or 2 worth playing. The good news is that unattended cashed-out machines usually revert to the main screen that shows the current progressive on each of the games the machine offers. You walk around, scouting every machine in the casino in about 90 seconds.
So you walk across the parking lot or street to the next casino and repeat.

Then, it's between a 30 and 90 minute drive to the next town, and their 3 or 4 casinos.
Maybe you make it to an actual city, and there are more casinos.
The travel time simply kills efficiency.

You may find some charming souvenirs on offer in the gift shop.



Eggs:
Hey, if you can find a better price on better quality eggs, go for it. The vegetarian fed eggs do seem to have more richly coloured yolks, and a subtly different taste.

I sympathize on not having time to boil a box of eggs.



*: I could be misremembering. It might be 17 or 18.
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January 18th, 2023 at 1:49:56 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

I haven't bought eggs since the 80s, so I'm pretty unconcerned about egg prices.

Getting back to the tax topic, I'd like to repeat something I said in my gambling taxes article: Gambling taxes are unfair and ought to be abolished, because gambling winnings aren't income. The net of all Americans' work output per year (measured in salary) is positive, so it should be taxed. But the net of all Americans' gambling activity per year is NEGATIVE. Thus, there is no income to tax.
link to original post



Your article agrees with mine, then, which is unsurprising. You should really start a forum on your site so I can gratuitously place links to all of my articles almost every single time I make a comment.

That said, my take on it is simply that gambling should not be construed as an increase to income if it cannot be construed as a decrease to income, excepting that income only coming from gambling.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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January 18th, 2023 at 1:58:20 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter



Ok, gambling, if I must:
Sure. It says "casino". In Montana American English (is that a thing?), that means "small bar with 20* slot machines". You might find 1 or 2 worth playing. The good news is that unattended cashed-out machines usually revert to the main screen that shows the current progressive on each of the games the machine offers. You walk around, scouting every machine in the casino in about 90 seconds.
So you walk across the parking lot or street to the next casino and repeat.

Then, it's between a 30 and 90 minute drive to the next town, and their 3 or 4 casinos.
Maybe you make it to an actual city, and there are more casinos.
The travel time simply kills efficiency.

You may find some charming souvenirs on offer in the gift shop.

Eggs:
Hey, if you can find a better price on better quality eggs, go for it. The vegetarian fed eggs do seem to have more richly coloured yolks, and a subtly different taste.

I sympathize on not having time to boil a box of eggs.

*: I could be misremembering. It might be 17 or 18.
link to original post



(Clipped to remove quote-in-quote and not duplicate image)

There are Native American, 'Casinos,' that are similar, with most of that sort of size being located in Oklahoma. Interestingly enough, in West Virginia, Limited Video Lottery Locations are legally prohibited from calling themselves, "Casinos," or advertising themselves (or even having a name) that directly relates to gambling. The only gambling-related promotional material they can have is a red circular sign that says, "West Virginia Lottery Products Available Here," or some such.

Either way, as relates Montana, a former Forum Member here seems to do well-enough at it. Even if the earn weren't great, the activity of hopping around and checking different places, at least for me, would be kind of fun on its own. I'm sure any hourly EV calculations the former forum member relies upon also include travel time as a consideration.

Besides that, he's aware of many play states that are of the less obvious variety on games that some wouldn't even be looking at.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
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January 18th, 2023 at 5:45:36 PM permalink
If the current crop of far-right politicians scrap the IRS in favor of a consumption tax of 23%, there would be no more W-2G's. Of course, they are more likely to scrap the IRS and have no consumption tax when they default on the federal debt in the next 2 quarters, starting tomorrow.
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January 18th, 2023 at 7:44:17 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

If the current crop of far-right politicians scrap the IRS in favor of a consumption tax of 23%, there would be no more W-2G's. Of course, they are more likely to scrap the IRS and have no consumption tax when they default on the federal debt in the next 2 quarters, starting tomorrow.
link to original post



Warning: Stop now. This thread is not about far-right politicians and this forum is not about partisan politics. Stop breaking our forum rules. Or else.
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MichaelBluejay
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January 18th, 2023 at 8:42:28 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You should really start a forum on your site so I can gratuitously place links to all of my articles almost every single time...

That's hyperbole.

The links are for the convenience of the reader. When I've referred to an article without linking, I've been asked for the link.

The *entirety* of Wizard of Vegas resulted in exactly *one* clickthrough to my site yesterday. Clearly I'm not linking for the clicks.

Also, 46 of the pages on my site link to WizardOfOdds.com, and 11 link to WizardOfVegas.com, so nanny-nanny-boo-boo.
Last edited by: MichaelBluejay on Jan 18, 2023
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