Jimmy21
• Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 15, 2021
March 15th, 2022 at 7:02:57 AM permalink
I'm trying to recreate a slot machine on my computer using python. I'm trying to get it to get the exact numbers shown on the par sheet and it's not quite there and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong

I downloaded BLACK GOLD / MIXED BLACK GOLD COLORED BARS from here:

forum/gambling/slots/33871-bally-par-sheets/

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 643
BLACK GOLD (BG) 111
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make
ThatDonGuy
• Posts: 6411
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
March 15th, 2022 at 7:19:22 AM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 6 4 3
BLACK GOLD (BG) 1 1 1
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

The 2-coin paytable is listed on the PAR sheet, in the columns to the right (5000 for the jackpot, 229 for three triple bars, 239 for two black gold and one triple bar (in any order), and so on). Are you using those? 94.74% is what you should get using the 1-coin paytable.
DRich
• Posts: 11896
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
March 15th, 2022 at 7:39:20 AM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

I'm trying to recreate a slot machine on my computer using python. I'm trying to get it to get the exact numbers shown on the par sheet and it's not quite there and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong

I downloaded BLACK GOLD / MIXED BLACK GOLD COLORED BARS from here:

forum/gambling/slots/33871-bally-par-sheets/

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 643
BLACK GOLD (BG) 111
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

If each reel only has 72 stops don't do a simulation. Just run each reel stop from 1..72, 1..72, 1..72 for a total of 373248 outcomes and that will give you the exact result.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
• Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
March 15th, 2022 at 7:47:49 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Jimmy21

I'm trying to recreate a slot machine on my computer using python. I'm trying to get it to get the exact numbers shown on the par sheet and it's not quite there and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong

I downloaded BLACK GOLD / MIXED BLACK GOLD COLORED BARS from here:

forum/gambling/slots/33871-bally-par-sheets/

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 643
BLACK GOLD (BG) 111
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

If each reel only has 72 stops don't do a simulation. Just run each reel stop from 1..72, 1..72, 1..72 for a total of 373248 outcomes and that will give you the exact result.

Now that you have retired, this looks like a fun way to while away the afternoon before hitting the early bird special.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
• Posts: 11896
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
March 15th, 2022 at 8:23:33 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: DRich

Quote: Jimmy21

I'm trying to recreate a slot machine on my computer using python. I'm trying to get it to get the exact numbers shown on the par sheet and it's not quite there and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong

I downloaded BLACK GOLD / MIXED BLACK GOLD COLORED BARS from here:

forum/gambling/slots/33871-bally-par-sheets/

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 643
BLACK GOLD (BG) 111
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

If each reel only has 72 stops don't do a simulation. Just run each reel stop from 1..72, 1..72, 1..72 for a total of 373248 outcomes and that will give you the exact result.

Now that you have retired, this looks like a fun way to while away the afternoon before hitting the early bird special.

Bill, if you are referring to me sadly I am not retired. I no longer work in casino gaming but sadly I still work every day from home. Fortunately a lot of my day is spent in swimming suit and flip flops by the pool with my laptop.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Jimmy21
• Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 15, 2021
March 15th, 2022 at 8:28:12 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Jimmy21

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 6 4 3
BLACK GOLD (BG) 1 1 1
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

The 2-coin paytable is listed on the PAR sheet, in the columns to the right (5000 for the jackpot, 229 for three triple bars, 239 for two black gold and one triple bar (in any order), and so on). Are you using those? 94.74% is what you should get using the 1-coin paytable.

I was just using the 1 coin pay table. I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Its starting to make more sense. I dont see the 239 for two black gold and one triple bar
Jimmy21
• Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 15, 2021
March 15th, 2022 at 8:30:24 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Jimmy21

I'm trying to recreate a slot machine on my computer using python. I'm trying to get it to get the exact numbers shown on the par sheet and it's not quite there and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong

I downloaded BLACK GOLD / MIXED BLACK GOLD COLORED BARS from here:

forum/gambling/slots/33871-bally-par-sheets/

I put in all 72 possibilities for each reel:

SINGLE BAR (1C) 16 18 20
DOUBLE BAR (2C) 13 7 4
TRIPLE BAR (3C) 643
BLACK GOLD (BG) 111
BLANK 36 42 44

and put in the payable listed. Then I had it run 10,000,000 times and each time, it seems to converge on 94% payback. It's not too far off the listed 95.13%, but it seems far enough off that I must have something off. Is there anything more that I'm missing? There is something about the pay being slightly different for 2 coins, but I didn't know what changes to make

If each reel only has 72 stops don't do a simulation. Just run each reel stop from 1..72, 1..72, 1..72 for a total of 373248 outcomes and that will give you the exact result.

That'd be good for making sure I have the paytable set up correctly, but I'm more trying to make a demonstrate of the gamblers fallacy than making sure the par sheet is accurate
heatmap
• Posts: 2282
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
Thanked by
March 15th, 2022 at 9:45:30 AM permalink
i dont know why but i knew i had these somewhere and couldnt seem to find my own damn post thanks for reminding me of this thread lol
Jimmy21
• Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 15, 2021
March 15th, 2022 at 9:54:29 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

i dont know why but i knew i had these somewhere and couldnt seem to find my own damn post thanks for reminding me of this thread lol

It's funny reading that thread "why would anyone ever want these?!?!?" Me: "thank God someone posted these!!!!"

They are fairly useless for an average customer walking in to a casino, but there's plenty of reasons to want them. Thanks for posting them!
ThatDonGuy
• Posts: 6411
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
March 15th, 2022 at 12:10:26 PM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

Quote: ThatDonGuy

The 2-coin paytable is listed on the PAR sheet, in the columns to the right (5000 for the jackpot, 229 for three triple bars, 239 for two black gold and one triple bar (in any order), and so on). Are you using those? 94.74% is what you should get using the 1-coin paytable.

I was just using the 1 coin pay table. I'm just trying to make sense of it all. Its starting to make more sense. I dont see the 239 for two black gold and one triple bar

It's in the "PAY 1" column that's to the right of the "PULLS / HIT" column; it's the fifth from the right edge of the page. The rows are offset, but the top value (5000) applies to the BG BG BG result, the second row (229) to the 3C 3C 3C result, the third row (239) to the 3C BG BG result, and so on down the page.
wilko84
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 2, 2024
April 2nd, 2024 at 7:47:02 PM permalink
Hi,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I found it because I'm looking to create a very rudimentary slot machine in Python as well.

What I'm stuck on is reading the PAR sheet to get the combinations. In your example I understand that SINGLE BAR has 16 occurrences on R1, 18 on R2, and 20 on R3. So on, and so forth.

When implementing them do you just assign 16 random values for R1 etc?
VegasEducation
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jan 13, 2024
Thanked by
April 2nd, 2024 at 8:17:29 PM permalink
I ended up making a youtube video on this which might help you. You can see it here:
/watch?v=AI8LkeIR6_8

This was one of the first things i coded. A combination of being a beginner and trying to make it the easiest way possible, the way you describe is what i did for my video. Today, might do something like this:

import random
R1 = random.choices(population=[['Single Bar'], ['Double Bar'], ['Triple Bar'],['Black Gold'],['Blank']],weights=[16,13,6,1,36])
R2 = random.choices(population=[['Single Bar'], ['Double Bar'], ['Triple Bar'],['Black Gold'],['Blank']],weights=[18,7,4,1,42])
R3 = random.choices(population=[['Single Bar'], ['Double Bar'], ['Triple Bar'],['Black Gold'],['Blank']],weights=[20,4,3,1,44])
print(R1,R2, R3)

It gets a little more complicated with the more complicated video slots. The concept is exactly the same but a little more complicated if you want to have clean and concise code.
Last edited by: VegasEducation on Apr 3, 2024
wilko84
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 2, 2024
April 2nd, 2024 at 8:21:05 PM permalink
Excellent, thanks!

CrystalMath
• Posts: 1911
Joined: May 10, 2011
April 2nd, 2024 at 8:28:49 PM permalink
Quote: wilko84

Hi,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I found it because I'm looking to create a very rudimentary slot machine in Python as well.

What I'm stuck on is reading the PAR sheet to get the combinations. In your example I understand that SINGLE BAR has 16 occurrences on R1, 18 on R2, and 20 on R3. So on, and so forth.

When implementing them do you just assign 16 random values for R1 etc?

Yes, you can do this. You would have a 16/72 chance of single bar on reel 1.
I heart Crystal Math.
VegasEducation
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jan 13, 2024
Thanked by
April 2nd, 2024 at 8:29:20 PM permalink
Quote: wilko84

Excellent, thanks!

Awesome! My channel might look dead but im currently working on a 20+ part series on everything about slot machines. I'm about to the point that im going to start releasing the videos soon. One of the videos i have planned is all about designing and coding a slot machine from scratch. I had planned to make a follow up video a long time ago with a machine that has bonus rounds and wilds. I had a video about half done using one of IGT's games that is still out in casinos. Then i got advised that i might get sued if i released the video. Manufacturers view these par sheets and the math behind them as the secret sauce that makes a game fun. They want the players to be enticed to keep playing but not tease them too much. They find that perfect balance through the math.

I am now in contact with a slot designer that is going to help me design my own slot machine. Not something to be commercially viable or anything like that, but just so i don't have to use one of IGT's games in my video. He said he couldn't tell me why or why not the game is a "good" game and what goes in to deciding that, but getting the concepts across should be no problem
wilko84
• Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 2, 2024
April 2nd, 2024 at 8:34:11 PM permalink
Yeah, I can imagine IGT would not be happy if you recreated one of their machines.

I've always been fascinated by slot machines (we call them fruit machines here in the UK), and have always wanted to code my own just for fun. It'd be interesting to learn how to create a PAR sheet myself but I'm rubbish at maths.

RobertMuir
• Posts: 16
Joined: Aug 3, 2014
April 3rd, 2024 at 5:28:31 AM permalink
Quote: VegasEducation

I ended up making a youtube video on this which might help you. You can see it here:
/watch?v=AI8LkeIR6_8

I saw your video when you released it. There's not much on this topic and its nicely done. I did wonder how many people could follow it, but going though the comments people really seem to like it. Its quite difficult explaining complex things in a simple way.

I keep thinking of doing a video around these topics myself. Its fun making YouTube video's, but so much work. And I keep getting stuck trying to work out what to talk about.

I don't know how people manage to put out video's so regularly.
VegasEducation
• Posts: 8
Joined: Jan 13, 2024
April 3rd, 2024 at 6:36:59 AM permalink
Quote: RobertMuir

Quote: VegasEducation

I ended up making a youtube video on this which might help you. You can see it here:
/watch?v=AI8LkeIR6_8

I saw your video when you released it. There's not much on this topic and its nicely done. I did wonder how many people could follow it, but going though the comments people really seem to like it. Its quite difficult explaining complex things in a simple way.

I keep thinking of doing a video around these topics myself. Its fun making YouTube video's, but so much work. And I keep getting stuck trying to work out what to talk about.

I don't know how people manage to put out video's so regularly.

Thanks. That video performed pretty poorly at first because it's too dense with info. It's picked up a little.
I feel like it deserves a million views and it's at like 30k.

That's what held me back from going full bore on slot machines before. "How many different ways can I say they are random? " I've finally gotten over that. I have a LOT of videos coming. I started keeping a list of video topic ideas and I'm up to like 200 video ideas for slots. Mainly, I watch other people's videos and look at all the stuff they get wrong and it sparks ideas
RobertMuir
• Posts: 16
Joined: Aug 3, 2014
April 3rd, 2024 at 8:17:56 AM permalink
How long does it take you to make a video? My last one took weeks and its only 11 minutes long. Doesn't seem right.

I got plenty of ideas, but I get stuck on how to present them and tie everything together. Telling a story is difficult.
VegasEducation