Dieter
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Dieter
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November 16th, 2021 at 11:19:45 AM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21


Thanks, I'll look in to it. I'm mostly concerned with las vegas strip casinos.
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Possibly of interest are the NGC regulations.
https://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=51

I'd start with Regulation 14 and the associated Technical Standards.

It would not surprise me if the Class III machines elsewhere were generally similar; my understanding is that the regulating authority for those games often accepts NGC compliant systems for use.

Class II is a whole different animal, but some of the anatomy is similar (meters, drop boxes, acceptors, etc).
May the cards fall in your favor.
Jimmy21
Jimmy21
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November 16th, 2021 at 11:54:12 AM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

Quote: Jimmy21

Specifically, I'm asking about the major Las Vegas strip casinos. In a given casino, I've heard two trains of thought. 1. That by denomination, every machine will have the same return to player. EG, all the quarter slots will have the same RTP as any other RTP inside the same casino. The only difference is variance. Or on the other hand 2. Certain machines will have an 85% RTP and the machine across the room could have a 97% RTP.
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If we're talking Las Vegas, then machines will not have the EXACT same RTP. A slot director can decide that certain denominations pay a rough percentage, such as 85% for penny machines, 87% for quarters, 94% for dollar denominations and so on. But each machine has a menu for various RTP programming, so one machine might have 94.2% while another has 94.8% for a slot director to choose.



Talking about vegas,
You used 94.2 and 94.8 as examples, is that the typical kind of variance in RTP we are talking about or would you ever see one bank of slots being 94.8 and one being 86% (of same denomination slots.) I know anything is possible, but if you walked in to Caesar's Palace or mgm grand right now....
DRich
DRich
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November 16th, 2021 at 11:58:26 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146



With Class III, however, I would be surprised if this would even be permitted, but DRich could clarify. I think that, "No machine is going to pay out two $100,000 jackpots in a row," is kind of an unintentionally misleading claim and one difficult to prove wrong. If it has never happened, then that's likely because it would simply be an extremely low probability event followed by another extremely low probability event, but I don't think that means that the probability is itself lower on the second spin of the two.
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That would never be allowed in Class III.
Order from chaos
DRich
DRich
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November 16th, 2021 at 11:59:10 AM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

Quote: smoothgrh

Quote: Jimmy21

Specifically, I'm asking about the major Las Vegas strip casinos. In a given casino, I've heard two trains of thought. 1. That by denomination, every machine will have the same return to player. EG, all the quarter slots will have the same RTP as any other RTP inside the same casino. The only difference is variance. Or on the other hand 2. Certain machines will have an 85% RTP and the machine across the room could have a 97% RTP.
link to original post



If we're talking Las Vegas, then machines will not have the EXACT same RTP. A slot director can decide that certain denominations pay a rough percentage, such as 85% for penny machines, 87% for quarters, 94% for dollar denominations and so on. But each machine has a menu for various RTP programming, so one machine might have 94.2% while another has 94.8% for a slot director to choose.



Talking about vegas,
You used 94.2 and 94.8 as examples, is that the typical kind of variance in RTP we are talking about or would you ever see one bank of slots being 94.8 and one being 86% (of same denomination slots.) I know anything is possible, but if you walked in to Caesar's Palace or mgm grand right now....
link to original post



Very possible but unlikely.
Order from chaos
Jimmy21
Jimmy21
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November 16th, 2021 at 3:29:20 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Jimmy21

Quote: smoothgrh

Quote: Jimmy21

Specifically, I'm asking about the major Las Vegas strip casinos. In a given casino, I've heard two trains of thought. 1. That by denomination, every machine will have the same return to player. EG, all the quarter slots will have the same RTP as any other RTP inside the same casino. The only difference is variance. Or on the other hand 2. Certain machines will have an 85% RTP and the machine across the room could have a 97% RTP.
link to original post



If we're talking Las Vegas, then machines will not have the EXACT same RTP. A slot director can decide that certain denominations pay a rough percentage, such as 85% for penny machines, 87% for quarters, 94% for dollar denominations and so on. But each machine has a menu for various RTP programming, so one machine might have 94.2% while another has 94.8% for a slot director to choose.



Talking about vegas,
You used 94.2 and 94.8 as examples, is that the typical kind of variance in RTP we are talking about or would you ever see one bank of slots being 94.8 and one being 86% (of same denomination slots.) I know anything is possible, but if you walked in to Caesar's Palace or mgm grand right now....
link to original post



Very possible but unlikely.
link to original post



Any idea if there is any truth to the PAR being set higher near higher foot traffic areas? Like near the bathrooms?
DRich
DRich
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November 16th, 2021 at 3:52:06 PM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

Quote: DRich

Quote: Jimmy21

Quote: smoothgrh

Quote: Jimmy21

Specifically, I'm asking about the major Las Vegas strip casinos. In a given casino, I've heard two trains of thought. 1. That by denomination, every machine will have the same return to player. EG, all the quarter slots will have the same RTP as any other RTP inside the same casino. The only difference is variance. Or on the other hand 2. Certain machines will have an 85% RTP and the machine across the room could have a 97% RTP.
link to original post



If we're talking Las Vegas, then machines will not have the EXACT same RTP. A slot director can decide that certain denominations pay a rough percentage, such as 85% for penny machines, 87% for quarters, 94% for dollar denominations and so on. But each machine has a menu for various RTP programming, so one machine might have 94.2% while another has 94.8% for a slot director to choose.



Talking about vegas,
You used 94.2 and 94.8 as examples, is that the typical kind of variance in RTP we are talking about or would you ever see one bank of slots being 94.8 and one being 86% (of same denomination slots.) I know anything is possible, but if you walked in to Caesar's Palace or mgm grand right now....
link to original post



Very possible but unlikely.
link to original post



Any idea if there is any truth to the PAR being set higher near higher foot traffic areas? Like near the bathrooms?
link to original post


About 20 years ago they used to do that. I haven't seen it done since then. I would guess that disappeared when coins went away.
Order from chaos
Mission146
Mission146
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November 17th, 2021 at 8:01:45 AM permalink
Quote: DRich


About 20 years ago they used to do that. I haven't seen it done since then. I would guess that disappeared when coins went away.
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I think it's a combination of that and also a tendency to now put the most impressive (visual and sound) machines in the high-traffic areas, which are also often the themed games of licensed properties and tend to have the worst returns. At the time the winners were put in high-traffic areas, slot machines also didn't tend to look remarkably different from each other.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
p13man
p13man
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January 30th, 2022 at 8:34:44 PM permalink
Quote: Jimmy21

Specifically, I'm asking about the major Las Vegas strip casinos. In a given casino, I've heard two trains of thought. 1. That by denomination, every machine will have the same return to player. EG, all the quarter slots will have the same RTP as any other RTP inside the same casino. The only difference is variance. Or on the other hand 2. Certain machines will have an 85% RTP and the machine across the room could have a 97% RTP.
link to original post



Modern machines are programmed to support multiple RTPs. The operator gets to choose the RTP of any given machine. If you spin to page 8 of this industry brochure http://www.rgbgames.com/home/pdf/suppliers-product-catalogue/Aristocrat-2016-Catalogue.pdf you'll see that the game supports RTPs of 91,92 and 93 percent. And that the range of possible RTPs goes from 85% to 96%. The game on page 17 gives the operator 6 choices of RTP. Of course, you have no idea which one they picked.
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 31st, 2022 at 12:46:59 AM permalink
The link may need updating, or a login with the vendor may be necessary.

There are some other fascinating hidden gems in other catalogs on their website; at least one gave me an audible moment of joy.
May the cards fall in your favor.

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