DRich
DRich
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September 3rd, 2020 at 8:24:31 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

DRich, if that is the case then every casino that has cash redemption machines is illegally structuring.

You think people who cash out thousands at redemption machines are being tracked and having CTR's filed on them?



You are incorrect. Those cash mahines are not there to willfully circumvent CTR's. They are there for the convenience of patrons to cash out. If you are using it to circumvent a CTR, you are probably breaking the law but the casino isn't.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
DRich
DRich
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September 3rd, 2020 at 8:29:02 AM permalink
Darkoz, by the way if you are using a players card when playing the TITO can be tracked back to you when it is cashed. If one was trying to disguise it, they would put the TITO in another slot machine without players card inserted and then cash out.

My company files CTR's for TITO's redeemed at the kiosk if the aggregate is over $10k.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
darkoz
darkoz
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September 3rd, 2020 at 9:01:17 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

You are incorrect. Those cash mahines are not there to willfully circumvent CTR's. They are there for the convenience of patrons to cash out. If you are using it to circumvent a CTR, you are probably breaking the law but the casino isn't.



I am unaware of any redemption machine that cashes out more than $3000 at a time and certainly not $10,000 at a time

Any Players not using a player card is basically forced to cash out separate and anonymous multiple transactions if they are cashing out $10,000 or more.

I don't see how the casinos cannot be held implicitly involved in this as they don't require use of a Players card (notwithstanding a few jurisdictionall exceptions) for tracking these situations and force all players to cash out way under the CTR reporting requirements.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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September 3rd, 2020 at 9:59:50 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I am unaware of any redemption machine that cashes out more than $3000 at a time and certainly not $10,000 at a time

Any Players not using a player card is basically forced to cash out separate and anonymous multiple transactions if they are cashing out $10,000 or more.

I don't see how the casinos cannot be held implicitly involved in this as they don't require use of a Players card (notwithstanding a few jurisdictionall exceptions) for tracking these situations and force all players to cash out way under the CTR reporting requirements.



Very few casinos allow more than $3000 at the kiosk. Casinos can run a report that totals up all of your cashouts for the day if you are using your player card. Usually it is run the next morning and if it totals over $10k they file a CTR. Some systems may do it in real time but the ones I have been involved with weren't that sophisticated.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
darkoz
darkoz
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September 3rd, 2020 at 10:22:32 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Very few casinos allow more than $3000 at the kiosk. Casinos can run a report that totals up all of your cashouts for the day if you are using your player card. Usually it is run the next morning and if it totals over $10k they file a CTR. Some systems may do it in real time but the ones I have been involved with weren't that sophisticated.



Who is responsible for filing CTR's?

If a customer cashes out $7,000 at the cashier and then returns a few hours later with another$7,000 is the customer required to mention his previous transaction or ask the cashier to file a CTR on their account?

I'm pretty certain this is a requirement of the casinos.

Furthermore if a casino failed to file a CTR for any reason the player would not be charged with a crime but the casino would be held responsible, correct?

Is there any legal requirement that a customer who has had multiple redemption machine transactions totalling over $10,000 go to the cashier and present their slips and request a CTR?

So if the casino has facilitated any means of avoiding their CTR responsibility, regardless of if it's for customers ease of use, such as redemption machines, any crime involved would be with the casino, not any player.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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Thanks for this post from:
waasnoday
September 3rd, 2020 at 10:40:27 AM permalink
The customer has no responsibility to mention to the casino their cashout amount.

You need to understand the casino did not put the kiosk there for the purpose of avoiding cTR's. It has to be a willful attempt to avoid a CTR.

If you cash out $8000 at the cage and then come back to cash out $4000 more and the clerk asks for your ID, if you take $2000 back and ask to only cash out $2000 you are committing a crime by trying to avoid a CTR. The casino will file a Suspicious Activity Report on you.

Casinos have been fined millions of dollars for not properly filing CTR's.

Whether you want to believe it or not, I know quite a bit about this topic. I have taught courses to casinos on it,
Living longer does not always infer +EV
darkoz
darkoz
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September 3rd, 2020 at 10:47:10 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

The customer has no responsibility to mention to the casino their cashout amount.
,



This clearly makes the onus on the casino in your own words.

You mentioned casinos have fined millions for failure to file CTR and I believe you.

How many casino patrons have been prosecuted to your knowledge?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DRich
DRich
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September 3rd, 2020 at 3:54:02 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



How many casino patrons have been prosecuted to your knowledge?



Many have been prosecuted for money laundering as that is the whole purpose of CTR's. Remember, CTR's are not for the IRS. They are for the Department of Treasury.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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September 3rd, 2020 at 6:15:23 PM permalink
But if you take a check for your over $10K in chips, or have it direct deposited into your checking account, there'd be no CTR because there's no cash.
I don't know what technologically savvy people do these days. Does Venmo or some such allow $25K deposits?
Payment Limits Venmo https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/221010968-Payment-Limits
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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September 3rd, 2020 at 6:23:10 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

But if you take a check for your over $10K in chips, or have it direct deposited into your checking account, there'd be no CTR because there's no cash.



Very good point.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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