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July 10th, 2019 at 1:17:52 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I am not sure how slots payouts work. When going from 80% to 90% is it the rng that changes, the payouts for each symbol, or the number of stops per real that changes? Or can it be all of those?

Just wondering if they could program VP machines to change payables throughout the day? Like make a 9-6 job game be 9-6 m-f 5am until 3pm but then automatically go to 8-5 on the other times.



Directly from the patent

6. The method of claim 5 wherein the video game is selected from the group of video games consisting of video poker, video slots, video blackjack, video keno and video bingo.

and to be honest, the way you describe it seems to be a bit less nefarious, but im pretty sure thats the point of the patent
DRich
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July 10th, 2019 at 1:28:50 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I am not sure how slots payouts work. When going from 80% to 90% is it the rng that changes, the payouts for each symbol, or the number of stops per real that changes? Or can it be all of those?

Just wondering if they could program VP machines to change payables throughout the day? Like make a 9-6 job game be 9-6 m-f 5am until 3pm but then automatically go to 8-5 on the other times.



Slot machines will have a separate model for each pay percentage available. Assume a typical slot machines has 5 different pays chedules built into the chip set. 85% 87% 89% 91% 93%. In most cases each different available pay percentage will have differently weighted reel strips. For example, the 93% game may have 10 bonus symbols where the 87% game may only have 6 bonus symbols.

Yes, a VP game could be configured to change paytables at certain times. These types of changes are legal in many jurisdictions.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
waasnoday
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July 10th, 2019 at 1:36:28 PM permalink
Have not see a par sheet that allows for changing a hold percentage based on the time of day. They may be out there but at my store we run class III machines and if a hold percentage is changed then we have to treat this as a new machine. Co-mingling of hold percentages is not really allowed. Here is the wording the regulation we have to follow "Each change to a gaming machine's theoretical hold percentage, including progressive percentage contributions, shall result in that machine being treated as a new machine in the statistical reports (i.e., not commingling various hold percentages), except for adjustments made in accordance with paragraph (h)(2) of this section." So what that means is we have to send a tech out to change the hold percentage with a representative of Regulatory who witnesses the change and then seals the board. The tech this fills out a couple pages of tracking documents. So even though there is a patent out there, I doubt you would see it in any class III gaming stores. 25crf542.13 (h) (15) would be hard to work around for that type of machine.
tringlomane
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July 10th, 2019 at 1:37:24 PM permalink
Quote: DRich



Yes, a VP game could be configured to change paytables at certain times. These types of changes are legal in many jurisdictions.



Even though it's legal in many jurisdictions, is it commonly used for slots in casinos? It's definitely not for video poker.
Zcore13
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July 10th, 2019 at 1:44:51 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Find me a jurisdiction that explicitly states that what Iím talking about is ILLEGAL



That is a ridiculous statement. Games, electronics, gaming supplies, pay tables, computer chips and the sort have to be approved for use. Everything is unapproved until approved.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
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July 10th, 2019 at 1:45:08 PM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

Have not see a par sheet that allows for changing a hold percentage based on the time of day. They may be out there but at my store we run class III machines and if a hold percentage is changed then we have to treat this as a new machine. Co-mingling of hold percentages is not really allowed. Here is the wording the regulation we have to follow "Each change to a gaming machine's theoretical hold percentage, including progressive percentage contributions, shall result in that machine being treated as a new machine in the statistical reports (i.e., not commingling various hold percentages), except for adjustments made in accordance with paragraph (h)(2) of this section." So what that means is we have to send a tech out to change the hold percentage with a representative of Regulatory who witnesses the change and then seals the board. The tech this fills out a couple pages of tracking documents. So even though there is a patent out there, I doubt you would see it in any class III gaming stores. 25crf542.13 (h) (15) would be hard to work around for that type of machine.



this is the kind of response i was looking for

i should let everyone know that what he is speaking about is INDIAN casino regulations now that i was able to find the law reference he was speaking about
michael99000
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July 10th, 2019 at 2:48:35 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

this is the kind of response i was looking for

i should let everyone know that what he is speaking about is INDIAN casino regulations now that i was able to find the law reference he was speaking about



Didnít you say a month ago that youíd figured out a way to play blackjack and a bj side bet , whereby you come out ahead on every hand ?

Why are you even bothering playing these other games
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July 10th, 2019 at 2:49:56 PM permalink
Hey waasnoday, what about (25 CFR 542.13 h iii )

(iii) On an annual basis, adjust the theoretical hold percentage in the gaming machine statistical report to a weighted average based upon the ratio of coin-in for each game paytable.

how do you explain that?
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July 10th, 2019 at 2:53:52 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Didnít you say a month ago that youíd figured out a way to play blackjack and a bj side bet , whereby you come out ahead on every hand ?

Why are you even bothering playing these other games



not quite and the only reason i am even looking at anything slot related is because its just so hard to miss when reasearching anything casino. hell i found that trove of slot PAR sheets by accident. as much as i dont play slot machines the fact that the wizard has started to talk more about slot AP the more i notice when searching for other stuff
waasnoday
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July 10th, 2019 at 3:14:38 PM permalink
The full citation is 25cfr542.13 (h) (2) (iii) and the reason I state that is because the (2) is the important part "For multi-game/multi-denominational machines, an employee or department independent of the gaming machine department shall:". "(iii) On an annual basis, adjust the theoretical hold percentage in the gaming machine statistical report to a weighted average based upon the ratio of coin-in for each game paytable." This applies to all those machines with multi-games (ex. VP machines) and multi-denoms (machines that allows various coin bets like .10, .25, 1.00 etc.). This reg requires us to come up with a weighted average because each of those various denoms and various games could all have a different hold percentage and various levels of play associated with each denom or game. Maybe the higher denom will be looser than the lower denom, or vice versa. The same goes with the various games. In order for management to see how well the machine is performing, a weighted average will be applied that shows how a machine is doing as a whole. Partly we want to see if it still performing as expected year in and year out. Honestly for myself, I want to see how each game or denom is performing but when you have a multi-game which also has multi-denoms, well you could be looking a hundred different hold percentages on just one machine. When I was auditing I use to hate it when some of these machines came up on the random sample. I and the tech would be tied up for quite some time as we looked at and verified each game and its various denoms.

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