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August 2nd, 2018 at 4:59:39 PM permalink
Are there any class 2 machines outside of indian casinos? or are they specific to indian casinos? do casinos that arent indian have different classes of machines or do the normal casinos follow IGRA?
Mission146
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LoneStarLyla
August 3rd, 2018 at 11:41:37 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Are there any class 2 machines outside of indian casinos? or are they specific to indian casinos? do casinos that arent indian have different classes of machines or do the normal casinos follow IGRA?



New York State is one example of a place, assuming they still have Class II slots.

If you're wondering whether or not a particular place has Class II's, unfortunately, looking up the state gambling laws is generally the easiest way to find out. If you want to PM me your state, I'll do it for you. I've looked up the gaming laws for pretty much all the states within the last couple years, so I can figure it out pretty quickly.

Most states with commercial casinos operate Class III slots. Some Indian casinos do, as well, if not most. It's really whatever the tribal compact will allow them to do. If the Indian casino is in a state that also has commercial casinos, then the state MUST give the Indian casino the ability to offer Class III games.
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August 3rd, 2018 at 10:24:08 PM permalink
Pennsylvania
wrxrob
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August 31st, 2018 at 9:29:14 PM permalink
Maryland has a few casinos that have a different class of machines than the typical, where the results of every game are printed out the bottom before the reels stop spinning. I assume that is class II. These casinos were around before the big commercial casinos got legalized.
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September 1st, 2018 at 6:01:27 AM permalink
Quote: wrxrob

Maryland has a few casinos that have a different class of machines than the typical, where the results of every game are printed out the bottom before the reels stop spinning. I assume that is class II. These casinos were around before the big commercial casinos got legalized.



Canít find a single reference in pa to class 2 - although me being the theorist that I am I have found reference to a hybrid class 3 and 2 server based gaming which - and this is my thoughts - someone can offer class 3 based on class 2 results - but once again I would have to find and read the specific patent and revise what I just said as Iím guessing
beachbumbabs
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September 1st, 2018 at 10:30:08 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Canít find a single reference in pa to class 2 - although me being the theorist that I am I have found reference to a hybrid class 3 and 2 server based gaming which - and this is my thoughts - someone can offer class 3 based on class 2 results - but once again I would have to find and read the specific patent and revise what I just said as Iím guessing



Really, that shouldn't be happening (a hybrid). The most distinct difference between Class II and Class III gaming is that Class II is banked from pool collections from all players within that network, while Class III is based on predetermined odds set by and paid by the House.

Class II and III machines do co-exist some places. Hard Rock Tampa had their old Class II salted in among their Class III for years after the gaming compact allowed them to offer Class III. The Downstream Casino in OK also had several banks of them in 2015 - at least they were decent enough to cluster them together. Neither place made it obvious. But their networks and bankrolls should be separate.

I think it's a cost issue. Perhaps also patron preference, that some of the older machines were left in place. But primarily, the casino has some investment, lease contract, useful life, left on those Class II, or maybe even a percentage required by the jurisdiction. I expect that's why they've been still present despite the jurisdiction allowing Class III.

And of course, some jurisdictions still only allow Class II. Florida has 6 different arrangements within the state.

The Seminole and other tribes are allowed to offer Class III, except no real dice or roulette wheels. That is under negotiation and expected to change any minute.

Miami Dade and Broward (Ft Lauderdale) have some kind of special zoning for their racetrack-based casinos, which can offer Class III slots and VP, ebj, e-craps, e-roulette, e-BigSix, but no live dealers.

Other racetracks are allowed to have poker rooms and Class II tables with a player bank (syndicate, usually), but no slots or e-games.

Video arcades (not gamer types, aimed at seniors) with SKILL BASED GAMING that look just like slots pop up in strip malls all over the place. But for at least the 4th time I know of, the state has raided and closed them due to the practices of some that wrecks the business model for the rest.

Bingo halls and skeeball arcades and carny games where you win a prize for either skill or luck are here and there, and heavily regulated. Bingo, I think, is only allowed to he offered by charitable organizations here - also true in Mississippi.

And full Vegas rule casino boats sail daily or more often from most major ports. They go into international waters before they open the casino, but they still have heavy oversight from both the Coast Guard and the state gaming board, or they lose their docking rights. They do offer full tables, including caps and roulette, and slots and VP.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Sep 1, 2018
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FCBLComish
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beachbumbabs
September 1st, 2018 at 8:49:43 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs


I think it's a cost issue. Perhaps also patron preference, that some of the older machines were left in place. But primarily, the casino has some investment, lease contract, useful life, left on those Class II, or maybe even a percentage required by the jurisdiction. I expect that's why they've been still present despite the jurisdiction allowing Class III.




Not always.

There are Indian Casinos that have compacts with the state allowing tiers of Slot Machines, where as they add more machines they pay a higher percentage of the win on all of their machines. If a casino has 2000 slots, and wants to add more, instead of doing so and raising their percentage, they add a few hundred class II machines, from which the state gets ZERO. They sprinkle the class II in with the rest of the machines. If you want to tell the difference, the class II games will have a small bingo card on them somewhere where you can see the balls drawn.
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FCBLComish
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September 1st, 2018 at 9:03:32 PM permalink
Page 9 of this document shows exactly what I mean.

http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/documents/compacts/original_compacts/Table_Mountain_Compact.pdf

From 1 to 350 machines, they pay zero per machine
From 351 to 750 machines, they pay $900 per day per machine
From 751 to 1250 machines, they pay$1950 per machine
From 1251 to 2000 machines, they pay $4350 per machine.

If they only wanted about 1400 machines, you can see how much they save by having 1250 class III and then the rest as class II.
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KevinAA
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September 2nd, 2018 at 9:51:51 PM permalink
you made a typo which I fixed in bold:

Quote: FCBLComish

Page 9 of this document shows exactly what I mean.

http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/documents/compacts/original_compacts/Table_Mountain_Compact.pdf

From 1 to 350 machines, they pay zero per machine
From 351 to 750 machines, they pay $900 PER YEAR per machine
From 751 to 1250 machines, they pay$1950 PER YEAR per machine
From 1251 to 2000 machines, they pay $4350 PER YEAR per machine.

If they only wanted about 1400 machines, you can see how much they save by having 1250 class III and then the rest as class II.



per day, LOL I don't think so

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