RS
RS
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June 16th, 2018 at 10:51:07 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

"For example one IGT tournament mode chip can return 500 percent while another 2000 percent for the same exact game"

And I would assume if the casino wanted to assure a particular person would win the tournament they would probably be dumb enough to set it at 2000% and leave the others at 500%. This would be noticed by just about any halfway educated gambler. A red flag would be an extreme understatement since the scores on the 2000% machines would reach near impossible levels from that of a 500% payback machine. Have you noticed scores on multiple occasions that are way above the avrage?


That's kinda what I was thinking. But it wouldn't have to be that drastic. Set all machines to 500% and the VIP's to 600-700% and he's got some pretty good odds to win.

Idk exactly how they can set machines, but can't they do it remotely? I know tournament machines are obviously set up differently than regular machines, but that would be a possible way of doing it.

Idk if they're doing it or not. IMO it'd be fairly unlikely for that to be happening, but it doesn't mean it's not.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 16th, 2018 at 11:21:48 PM permalink
Quote: RS

That's kinda what I was thinking. But it wouldn't have to be that drastic. Set all machines to 500% and the VIP's to 600-700% and he's got some pretty good odds to win.

Idk exactly how they can set machines, but can't they do it remotely? I know tournament machines are obviously set up differently than regular machines, but that would be a possible way of doing it.

Idk if they're doing it or not. IMO it'd be fairly unlikely for that to be happening, but it doesn't mean it's not.

I That's what someone who put some thought into it would do. Not many casino employees put much thought into stuff. We would have to ask someone in the know what kind of different tournament setting they have on the same machines. I would think they probably have 500%, 1000%, 2000%. It just doesn't make much sense to create all different kinds of tournament settings.

Even a 1000% setting would be very noticeable VS a 500% setting.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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June 17th, 2018 at 12:34:25 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

With all my experience I wouldn't put it past casinos and I don't think it would be all that hard to rig things. They do it all the time. There's casinos that have been caught "palming" a winning ticket for a specific person. There's casinos that absolutely rig drawings by giving top players 1,000,000 extra entries while the regular joe has 2 entries. Rivers casino in PA was caught short decking their blackjack shoe games years and years ago and were fined, yet that just got swept under the rug and no one even talks about it anymore. Casinos absolutely cheat, and have been caught cheating...



And silently everyone one day will agree with the king about the cheating that is going on today surrounding blackjack. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why preshuffled cards are being used. They literally save no time whatsoever, if any by using them and they STILL throw them in the ASM to shuffle LOL. All it does is kill any transparency from casino to patron.

More and more stories of blackjack cheating will continue to surface as time goes on sadly. And guess what? Like I said again, NOTHING ever happens to them. So the counter argument about casinos having too much to lose to risk cheating is completely ludicrous. You can bet there is vast amounts of cheating going in this mob ridden town. Bellagio, Caesars, and Planet Hollywood are the top 3 rigged ones and coincidentally are located smack dab in the middle of the vegas strip. Hmmm. Just a matter of time until the truth eventually comes out and the result will be a slap on the wrist.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
Jmarch79
Jmarch79
Joined: Apr 24, 2018
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June 17th, 2018 at 12:59:49 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

And silently everyone one day will agree with the king about the cheating that is going on today surrounding blackjack. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why preshuffled cards are being used. They literally save no time whatsoever, if any by using them and they STILL throw them in the ASM to shuffle LOL. All it does is kill any transparency from casino to patron.

More and more stories of blackjack cheating will continue to surface as time goes on sadly. And guess what? Like I said again, NOTHING ever happens to them. So the counter argument about casinos having too much to lose to risk cheating is completely ludicrous. You can bet there is vast amounts of cheating going in this mob ridden town. Bellagio, Caesars, and Planet Hollywood are the top 3 rigged ones and coincidentally are located smack dab in the middle of the vegas strip. Hmmm. Just a matter of time until the truth eventually comes out and the result will be a slap on the wrist.



If casinos cheating at blackjack is such an epidemic, how do you make a decent living (according to you) playing the game?
casinoking000
casinoking000
Joined: May 16, 2018
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June 17th, 2018 at 12:19:37 PM permalink
Quote: RS

That's kinda what I was thinking. But it wouldn't have to be that drastic. Set all machines to 500% and the VIP's to 600-700% and he's got some pretty good odds to win.

Idk exactly how they can set machines, but can't they do it remotely? I know tournament machines are obviously set up differently than regular machines, but that would be a possible way of doing it.

Idk if they're doing it or not. IMO it'd be fairly unlikely for that to be happening, but it doesn't mean it's not.



The machines they use are the old school 3 reel that have chips to determine the payback percentage.

All it takes is a quick google search to see tournament chips that have paybacks ranging from 500-2000 percent. Of course they would likely not have a 500 percent chip in one machine and a 2000 percent chip in the other. It would most likely be a 500 percent chip in the majority and a 600 percent chip in a few.

All I know is the last few Iíve played at Mandalay Bay there was a slot tech standing in the area the entire time. Sure he could have just been there in case a machine broke but itís not like he would fix it in the middle of an active tournament anyway.

This thread was just food for thought. Again I donít even think if the casino did this it would be considered against any rules.

As for the 2000 percent machine being obvious, people would probably just think the player got lucky.

Also you have to understand how much the casino is making off of these things. Personally Iíd spend $1500 a day when invited to a tournament and Iím not even a high roller. So for someone who spends day 5K a day having them not win anything in the tourney would surely leave a bad taste in their mouths.
casinoking000
casinoking000
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June 17th, 2018 at 12:26:21 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

"For example one IGT tournament mode chip can return 500 percent while another 2000 percent for the same exact game"

And I would assume if the casino wanted to assure a particular person would win the tournament they would probably be dumb enough to set it at 2000% and leave the others at 500%. This would be noticed by just about any halfway educated gambler. A red flag would be an extreme understatement since the scores on the 2000% machines would reach near impossible levels from that of a 500% payback machine. Have you noticed scores on multiple occasions that are way above the avrage?



Yes, and I did notice crazy scores and I documented it the last time I played.

The same machine posted a 17000, 15000 and 12000 score in three seperate rounds while the average score for the other machines were 7500.

Also you wouldnít need any collusion between the slot techs and marketing. You tell them what to do and document the machine number. Machine numbers are assigned well in advance of the tournament.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 17th, 2018 at 2:10:37 PM permalink
Quote: casinoking000

Yes, and I did notice crazy scores and I documented it the last time I played.

The same machine posted a 17000, 15000 and 12000 score in three seperate rounds while the average score for the other machines were 7500.

I would discreetly be taking pictures, not that that's needed since scores are documented and bring it up with NGC.


Feel free to post up the times, dates, machine numbers, exact scores, and locations.

I don't know if its illegal for them to do this but it would be really bad for their reputation if proven to be true. If they are rigging the tournaments getting the word out might get them to stop in fear of unknown consequences and bad publicity.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
casinoking000
casinoking000
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June 17th, 2018 at 2:27:55 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I would discreetly be taking pictures, not that that's needed since scores are documented and bring it up with NGC.


Feel free to post up the times, dates, machine numbers, exact scores, and locations.

I don't know if its illegal for them to do this but it would be really bad for their reputation if proven to be true. If they are rigging the tournaments getting the word out might get them to stop in fear of unknown consequences and bad publicity.



Thanks.

Yea, I donít think the NGC would do anything since the prizes are freeplay which technically have no cash value. Obviously if word got out and it turned out they were doing this they would probably stop but who knows.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 17th, 2018 at 5:15:23 PM permalink
Quote: casinoking000

Thanks.

Yea, I donít think the NGC would do anything since the prizes are freeplay which technically have no cash value. Obviously if word got out and it turned out they were doing this they would probably stop but who knows.



I DO think they would do somthing. They have fined casinos for cheating during drawings before.
They don't want casinos doing anything that can tarnish Nevada gambling and its reputation for being fair.

I wouldn't doubt if there's somthing veg in the gaming rules they could use regarding integrity.

If what you are saying is accurate regarding the super high scores and you could show that to them and explain your thinking, I think they would do an investigation. What harm can come by reporting it to NGC? If the casino gets a simple call from NGC regarding this, that might put a stop to it
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GlenG
GlenG
Joined: Feb 5, 2018
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June 17th, 2018 at 5:33:49 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

And silently everyone one day will agree with the king about the cheating that is going on today surrounding blackjack. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out why preshuffled cards are being used. They literally save no time whatsoever, if any by using them and they STILL throw them in the ASM to shuffle LOL. All it does is kill any transparency from casino to patron.

More and more stories of blackjack cheating will continue to surface as time goes on sadly. And guess what? Like I said again, NOTHING ever happens to them. So the counter argument about casinos having too much to lose to risk cheating is completely ludicrous. You can bet there is vast amounts of cheating going in this mob ridden town. Bellagio, Caesars, and Planet Hollywood are the top 3 rigged ones and coincidentally are located smack dab in the middle of the vegas strip. Hmmm. Just a matter of time until the truth eventually comes out and the result will be a slap on the wrist.



So what about hand shuffled games?

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