How to Win Slot Machines

Quote: AxelWolf

It has nothing to do with how much money you put in the machine. It's what you have wagered on the machine period.

You could put $1 into a machine, get lucky, hit a bunch of stuff and end up coining in thousands of dollars in action.

Thanks for clarifying axel. That's what I thought but I wanted to be sure.

The only time I ever play slots is late at night when I want a few more drinks before going to bed but I don't want to play something I have to think about to get the drinks. I'll drop a twenty in and slow play until I get all the drinks I want or until the money runs out. I did have a couple of hits my last trip where I turned a $20 into $80 and another $20 into $100. That was just luck at a -ev game.

Quote: razmaspaz

I'm not going to look up the thread Axel served up the quote from, but I'm pretty sure I was talking in the context of whether a property would care about my $2500 trip bankroll. Which is why chasing a 30k progressive with 10-20k in losses would quickly bankrupt me, but at the same time when I make $10-15/hr and cut a little off my trip costs, I'm over the moon.

One possible rule of thumb for APs (due to Stanford Wong) is that any one loss should be no more than 5% pf your bankroll. So chasing a 5K/30K progressive with possible -20K/-120K losses = 400K-5M bankroll.

So yes, it's not suggested to "chase to the death" for a $2,500 trip bankroll.

However, you could take a 100+% game & play $125 on it... Mathematically, it doesn't matter if you drop the progressive in the short run (like hitting a royal in 30 min). What matters is if you play enough to get into the LONG RUN, where the theoretical advantage should (99%, 99.5%, etc...) overcome any short-term variance.

Some heavy players (e.g. who play 2,000-6,000 hrs/year) neglect the short-term strategies many people use. Like BJ counters who play less than 20 hours in a visit. Being up or down is mostly chance... So money management & other strategies can make the game more fun (or more stable, or more likely to walk away with a short-term win).

Quote: razmaspaz

However I wouldn't expect the variance to change much on a $30k progressive vs a $300 progressive, same as how it wouldn't on $10/hand or $1000/hand BJ.

A $30K progressive is usually a $1/$5/$10/$25 machine. A $300 progressive is usually a penny machine. Usually the overall return on a $1-25 machine is set higher.

The variance will depend on the distribution set by the slot manfacturer, and it can do whatever they want.
Often the games with $30K progressives are different games than the ones with $300 progressives.
This is very different from VP or BJ, where the same games are sometimes available at $0.01-$100 (VP) or $1-10,000 (BJ).

For example, some $100K progressives are usually +/- $250K (2.5x)
and some $50 progressives are usually +/- $600 (12x).

Quote: razmaspaz

Which is why chasing a 30k progressive with 10-20k in losses would quickly bankrupt me, but at the same time when I make $10-15/hr and cut a little off my trip costs, I'm over the moon.

Wide range of possible slot AP tactics (non-VP) which fit many budgets.

(1) Totally broke - ask for money on street (Casinos don't like begging inside), pick up cash/chips on floor (Cash in allowed in Vegas, but not chips), tickets (Frowned upon by most casinos - Called "TITO theft", but allowed in some - "Moving more than 3 slot machines away, we consider the money abandoned"). There are a few coupons which require absolutely no cash (but many require at least $1). Possibly $3-5/hr.

(2) Have $10-100 - Some very low budget games ($10-$15/hr in a good location). No progressives at any level (with the exception of the "CE" game, which has an unusual quirk - or ridiculous stuff like a $49.95 on a $50 must-hit). Take bus rides to far-away casinos (e.g. buy $10 ticket & get $20-250 FP). Couponing (ACG, LVCG, etc...)

At a Las Vegas bowling alley, one casino was leaving 100s of flyers with $5 match plays (for tables). I went multiple times...
I don't think there are any slot coupons which can be used 100s of times (but who knows, maybe a stack of Harrahs $5 vouchers...)

(3) Have $2,000-4,000 - Small must-hit progressives (e.g. $10-50). Not recommended to try $400-$500 must-hit progressives (or any uncapped progressives) with this budget. Some popular non-progessive bonus games. Free rooms & food. Small rebates.

(4) Have $20,000-40,000. Medium must-hit progressives (e.g. $400-1,000). Not recommended to try $5,000-10,000 must-hits. Some uncapped progressives. Can game casino marketing offers, rebates, drawings, and promotions (like big VP players). For example, take temporary -$2K to -$5K losses for a few months, to set up future FP, Free Tournaments, and higher point-returns due to higher level cards.

I don't have experience with the newer $1,200/$2,000/$2,500/$3,000 must-hits released in 2016-2017. Without knowing the variance, I don't know what budget would be safer (Highly likely $20K is not enough). Be careful if you try them. Some have extremely slow meters.

(5) ... and higher.

The strategies used at very high levels can look like straight-up gambling to most people.

I learn new stuff every year (small, medium, and large), which is a big reason why I gamble.
I'm sure there are plenty of tactics I am not familiar with.

----
Funny story:
I have played at a slot machine, sitting right next to someone who's playing a slot that I didn't recognize as an advantage slot/play, ... while they couldn't figure out what I was doing.

It took me about one month to figure out what they were doing.
And they took about two months to figure out what I was doing. :-)

Very Educational Read mamat!!

Is that 5% of your cash bankroll that you brought to the Casino with you? 5% of your total liquid bankroll? 5% of your total Net Worth? 5% of your borrowing power? 5% of what you are willing to lose on a total play? I am not going to refute some sound advice like Stanford Wong. I am going to explain to players that things in the real world don't play the same as in the Classroom or in a Text Book. When I started to play 5 or 10 dollar VP I found that the money didn't move like I thought it would. After some time I got used to losing and winning 5k or 10k in a night. I also realized how easier things became on all fronts once I was willing to accept higher variance and greater risk. Reels are completely different but the money doesn't move around like one would imagine as well.

I have to agree that I can't figure mamat out. I might have the wrong member here but I think he is the same player who told me stories of how credit hustlers stole his tickets many a time right beside him or down the bank of machines. If this is the same player I think it is he got rolled in LA or San Francisco chasing his money down the street or something like that? Is this the same player I think it is? If not I am sorry... I have to go back and read some older threads and posts to make sure my memory isn't failing me!?

One of my favorites is the Wiz himself explaining how entranced he was playing at the 4 queens on older coin machines and a credit hustler sat right next to him and started cashing out coins while his friend was in the bathroom. I still don't understand how that machine was not in the middle of a hand with a couple ashtrays on the seat or some other types of blockers.

I make plenty of mistakes but I have never had a problem with credit hustlers or pickpockets.

Interesting note... that night I was playing the 30k+ progressive I was feeding the machines next door with hundreds and cashing out the tickets. Low and Behold a known credit hustler/degenerate type made some wise crack at me and this was about 4am. I know that voice and I know I wasn't going to shake him. So he caught me and I bought him some drinks and later got hustled into getting him some food, cigs and a comped room. Even I am susceptible to getting hustled sorta. I mean I have known that rail bird for over 20 years... it's not like I am going to tell him to screw. Food and Rooms I will give out without a thought... they come by easy and I honestly will never be able to use them all each month. However I am not giving this player or most any other player straight cash. You need money... go hustle the tourists. Heck... these days they let you pan handle and hustle right on the street all over Vegas. This was unheard of years ago! I understand though... everyone got to have a job!!

Quote: monet0412

Is that 5% of your cash bankroll that you brought to the Casino with you? 5% of your total liquid bankroll? 5% of your total Net Worth? 5% of your borrowing power? 5% of what you are willing to lose on a total play?

Stanford was talking about craps.

I suggest 5% of your gambling bankroll (not session bankroll). It's also good to do an RoR calculation (if you have the data).
For example, if you want to play a $50 must-hit which might be +/- $600. I suggest having 20x $600 = $12,000 gambling bankroll.

a) For some people "gambling bankroll" = "net worth". For more conservative people, it might be 10% of net worth.
b) Gets complicated with "implied bankroll"; e.g. if you have a job, investment income, or steady gambling income (e.g. monthly FP).

Quote: monet0412

I might have the wrong member here but I think he is the same player who told me stories of how credit hustlers stole his tickets many a time right beside him or down the bank of machines.

I had about 8-10 tickets stolen over 10 years (not counting small ones under $200). Twice I saw the people. Most other times, I forgot my money in a slot machine & walked away for at least 5 min...

Some slots have a dangerous quirk.
a) If you insert a ticket into the machine.
b) Press cash out before the ticket has been added to the total
c) The cash out ticket will NOT have the last inserted ticket amount

When I'm tired & amalgamating tickets, I've lost some money this way...
I try to look at every ticket total after I cash out, but recently I was interrupted by another AP who had found a good game. ...and boom...another lost ticket.

I don't stress about it. It's just a "cost of business"...and there's very little cost.

There have only been four times when the casino didn't catch the person & reimburse my money (Twice, in one really lousy casino...whose name I won't mention. This casino also failed to reimburse one of my friends who lost a $700 ticket. Lousy customer service.).

Another friend left $1,000+ in a slot machine last month, and the casino reimbursed him within a few hours...even though the thief had already left the casino (They had his name, car, license plate, and address. Good old security cameras in parking lots).

Quote: monet0412

If this is the same player I think it is he got rolled in LA or San Francisco chasing his money down the street or something like that? Is this the same player I think it is? If not I am sorry... I have to go back and read some older threads and posts to make sure my memory isn't failing me!?

Different person.

Quote: monet0412
If this is the same player I think it is he got rolled in LA or San Francisco chasing his money down the street or something like that? Is this the same player I think it is? If not I am sorry... I have to go back and read some older threads and posts to make sure my memory isn't failing me!?

Quote: mamat

Different person.

Once again mamat a very educational post from you! I do appreciate the breakdown and suggested advice to properly manage a bankroll!! IMHO this is the biggest problem for unsuccessful APs or players trying to make a living off of Casinos.

I had to go back and dig up the post on the 3rd page of the Pickpocket Thread started by EvenBob to see if I still have my memory skills working...

July 16th, 2017 at 5:31:07 AM

Quote: mamat

I was mugged in both Los Angeles & San Francisco (never in Las Vegas), and the police response was night & day.

Los Angeles: About 12 police cars pursued 3 muggers, car chase, foot chase, court case, met families of muggers
San Francisco: did nothing.

Sigh...

So my memory did fail me since I thought it was LA or San Francisco but as it turns out you had the same problem in BOTH cities and you weren't chasing the perps but the police were... this is your story/post right?

I am not trying to call you out or pick a fight I just find it a terrible run that someone has endured such hardship or craziness compared to myself when it comes to credit hustlers or pickpockets. Especially someone who is by far more knowledgeable about math and gaming compared to myself. Actually when it comes down right to it I am not very smart at all... the things I do... anyone can do. I am basically 10 to 20 years behind the leaders. The nice thing is that the crumbs they left behind are enough to live on for now.

Quote: monet0412

If this is the same player I think it is he got rolled in LA or San Francisco chasing his money down the street or something like that?

So my memory did fail me since I thought it was LA or San Francisco but as it turns out you had the same problem in BOTH cities and you weren't chasing the perps but the police were... this is your story/post right?

It's my story. In neither case did I... "chasing his money down the street or something like that".
(a) The cost of fixing a small injury is way too high. My right knee surgery for a sports injury was $10K (of which I paid a $2K deductible).
(b) In both cases, I had very little money in my wallet (less than $100, I think).
(c) They either had a gun, or claimed to have a gun. I'm not running unarmed after someone with a gun...

I've been mugged twice in 40+ years.

In Santa Monica in the mid-1990s, I was juggling at the beach (where I had biked). When I was leaving the beach, sitting on a bench & putting on my bicycle helmet, three guys tried to steal my bicycle. A police car was about 500 feet away (dumb thieves), and they chased the thieves. When they drove me to the site where there apprehended the three guys & gave me my bicycle back, I was surprised to see about 12 police cars. They explained that whenever they leave the Santa Monica area, they call all their police cars. It was quite a scene. After the suspects' car was stopped, the guys tried to make a run for it (not sure if one, or all three).

In San Francisco in the 2000s, I was parked in a small turnoff in a park which had great views of the city (about five parking spots in the turnoff). Heading to my trunk to get something, I was surprised by a guy who put a gun to my side, took my wallet & keys, & didn't take anything else from the car. After he left, I found my spare keys & drove to the nearest police station. They didn't bother to chase the guy. I filled out a form, and they did nothing.

Same Machine as before... I don't give up. I had two sessions. I will list the stats later when I wake up. Long Story short the first session I lost 3k in a short span and went home. I came back about a week later and ended up winning $6400 in another short session. The figures are slightly rounded up and not factoring in points. Here is the Lower Jackpot Picture. Interesting Note... I haven't made regular 7s with the double sign yet and only 1 Red Sevens with the Double sign. I have made 2 Lower Jackpots though which is nice. It seems they fixed the machine and it isn't doing what it was doing a few weeks ago :( ... When I snapped it at the angle it seems I got the buttons in the reflection.



I just need the double sign :)

Quote: Indu

Any tips,suggesion or blog which suggest how to win from vblink slot machine games in Casino.
link to original post

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If playing 25 lines at $0.10/line and a 2X multiplier for 300 spins, you'd need $1.5K for a session buy-in, and see how much you leave with after a bonus round or two or more. The point is that bonus rounds should come up around every 50 to 75 spins but the machine may be cold and not show up for 300+ spins in which case you're tapped out. This is on machines where you need to get 15 symbols during a bonus round to get the Grand Jackpot.