Question on a slot bonus round.
I choose the squares until with four left,I had two of each, a mini jackpot paid $14, minor paid about $30, the major paid $100 and the grand about 450.
Are the squares locked in so I choose the prize I get or has the decision already been made and the predetermined prize pops up whichever I choose?
Not sure what thread he said it in, but he's active here still. Maybe he'll repeat that for you. Or maybe I misunderstood, but I found it very illuminating at the time.
Quote: beachbumbabsSomeone here who programs these things says that if, after the bonus has been resolved, the program shows you where the other values were, you had a random shot, but if it doesn't, it's preprogrammed.
Not sure what thread he said it in, but he's active here still. Maybe he'll repeat that for you. Or maybe I misunderstood, but I found it very illuminating at the time.
I was just going to edit my post with what you said in the first paragraph. Generally, if the remaining picks are revealed, it's random. If they aren't, it's predetermined.
I'd say the same goes for casino promos where you choose squares, cards, etc. At players card kiosks.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIGenerally, if the remaining picks are revealed, it's random. If they aren't, it's predetermined.
I'd say the same goes for casino promos where you choose squares, cards, etc. At players card kiosks.
I disagree.
There are kiosk promos where you regularly get $10 or $15 (or some other relatively constant amount depending on how big of a player you are) and every time they reveal the other squares there's a $500 jackpot that you presumably had a 1/5 chance of hittting. Even though remaining picks are revealed, you likely had an infinitesimal chance, or maybe zero chance, of getting the big prize.
I've heard slot programmers say that within the bonus round of slot machines, what you pick is actually random. I, for one, believed them.
Quote: BobDancerI disagree.
There are kiosk promos where you regularly get $10 or $15 (or some other relatively constant amount depending on how big of a player you are) and every time they reveal the other squares there's a $500 jackpot that you presumably had a 1/5 chance of hittting. Even though remaining picks are revealed, you likely had an infinitesimal chance, or maybe zero chance, of getting the big prize.
I've heard slot programmers say that within the bonus round of slot machines, what you pick is actually random. I, for one, believed them.
Notice I said "generally." That doesn't mean all the time.
Next Saturday, and every Saturday in June, I have a swipe for a minimum of $15 in FP. Since I'm platinum, I'll get $25 minimum. Won't be any higher, guaranteed, even though the offer says it could be.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThe kiosk game is pretty obviously not random, just after being around minutes seeing everyone bust out worst case. Seems the same way playing the slots, predominantly minis with seemingly good shots, but good humor to observe false hope busted of others. Something other than minis could happen, but it's normally a tease.
A lady behind me a couple months ago was surprised I got a $25 when $5 was the minimum. I showed her my card and said it's predetermined. I knew I was getting $25. Nothing more, nothing less even though $1000 was "possible."
What I was thinking about was promotions Mountaineer used to have where playing was based on getting 250$ coin-in, not based on previous play. They discontinued all these earn and get promotions as far as I know. Predominantly either $5 or $7 fp.Quote: IbeatyouracesA lady behind me a couple months ago was surprised I got a $25 when $5 was the minimum. I showed her my card and said it's predetermined. I knew I was getting $25. Nothing more, nothing less even though $1000 was "possible."
It's been a while since I played there, but this style of "random" kisok swipes has been been going on there for quite a while.
Quote: IbeatyouracesNotice I said "generally." That doesn't mean all the time.
Next Saturday, and every Saturday in June, I have a swipe for a minimum of $15 in FP. Since I'm platinum, I'll get $25 minimum. Won't be any higher, guaranteed, even though the offer says it could be.
Yes you did say generally. But then you gave an example of the contrary "guaranteed" --- which basically means never.
There's a world of difference between "generally" and "never."
Quote: beachbumbabsSomeone here who programs these things says that if, after the bonus has been resolved, the program shows you where the other values were, you had a random shot, but if it doesn't, it's preprogrammed.
Not sure what thread he said it in, but he's active here still. Maybe he'll repeat that for you. Or maybe I misunderstood, but I found it very illuminating at the time.
I would say that is true for the slots in Nevada and probably most other states. As far as promos I don't know if there are requirements but I would assume most still follow that pattern.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMost likely predetermined.
I also disagree. It is good programming practice to not determine the outcome until the player presses a button or the screen. For example, if you have four to a royal flush, whether or not you get the royal depends on exactly when you press the draw button. The outcome is not predestined.
Assuming the game isn't gaffed, there is no reason to predestine the outcome. It is less programming work to let the player control his own destiny than pick a random one.
Quote: WizardI also disagree. It is good programming practice to not determine the outcome until the player presses a button or the screen. For example, if you have four to a royal flush, whether or not you get the royal depends on exactly when you press the draw button. The outcome is not predestined.
Assuming the game isn't gaffed, there is no reason to predestine the outcome. It is less programming work to let the player control his own destiny than pick a random one.
On card games the technical Standards require the outcome odds be representative of a standard deck but on slots games it is not required.
I have programmed slot games for different manufacturers that work both ways. On some games the outcome isn't determined until you press the button but which button you choose does not always give a different result. A simple example would be if three buttons are available to choose on the screen in a bonus round. When you choose a button you would have a 95% chance of winning 100 coins, a 4% chance of winning 300 coins and a 1% chance of winning 500 coins. The button pressed has no bearing on the outcome.
Quote: DRichOn card games the technical Standards require the outcome odds be representative of a standard deck but on slots games it is not required.
I have programmed slot games for different manufacturers that work both ways. On some games the outcome isn't determined until you press the button but which button you choose does not always give a different result. A simple example would be if three buttons are available to choose on the screen in a bonus round. When you choose a button you would have a 95% chance of winning 100 coins, a 4% chance of winning 300 coins and a 1% chance of winning 500 coins. The button pressed has no bearing on the outcome.
So what does determine it? Are you saying if I have a choice of three buttons, its WHEN I hit the button that counts, not WHICH button I choose?
Card Level 1
$10 - 75%
$25 - 20%
$50 - 4%
$125 - .9%
$500 - .1%
Average Payout $15
Estimated Patrons 2,500
Cost $37,500
....
Card Level 3
$10 - 0%
$25 - 10%
$50 - 75%
$125 - 10%
$500 - 5%
Average Payout $77.50
Estimated Patrons 500
Cost $38,750
That's probably a typical behind the scenes look at promotions like this.
Quote: billryanSo what does determine it? Are you saying if I have a choice of three buttons, its WHEN I hit the button that counts, not WHICH button I choose?
I think he is saying nothing determines it other than the RNG and the odds programmed into the machine. The 3 buttons just give you an illusion of choice.
Hitting any 3 of the buttons in that example would be the same as spinning a wheel where 95% of the wheel awards 100, 4% awards 300, and 1% awards 500.
My question is, do they do that in bonus round picks where the choices you didn't choose are revealed at the end (and thus are also an illusion)?
Quote: gamerfreak
My question is, do they do that in bonus round picks where the choices you didn't choose are revealed at the end (and thus are also an illusion)?
No, if they reveal the amounts it is safe to assume those values were available for you to pick.
Quote: billryanSo what does determine it? Are you saying if I have a choice of three buttons, its WHEN I hit the button that counts, not WHICH button I choose?
Usually that is the case when only a single win amount is available. In the old days that value might be determined even before you hit the button but most machines today only choose it when ready to be revealed. If it was chosen ahead of time it would have to be stored in memory and it would be possible for a hacker to change the value. That is also the reason video poker machines now continue to shuffle the remaining 47 cards after the initial deal.
Quote: DRichNo, if they reveal the amounts it is safe to assume those values were available for you to pick.
Let me rephrase with your example.
There's a bonus round where you pick one of three boxes, with there being a possibility of winning 100, 300, or 500 credits, determined at the time of pressing any of the 3.
I hit the middle box and get 100, it shows me that the left box "contained" 300 and the right "contained" 500, but in reality they just randomly assigned the remaining possibilities to the two I unchosen boxes.
Is that what you're saying? Thanks for sharing.
Quote: gamerfreakLet me rephrase with your example.
There's a bonus round where you pick one of three boxes, with there being a possibility of winning 100, 300, or 500 credits, determined at the time of pressing any of the 3.
I hit the middle box and get 100, it shows me that the left box "contained" 300 and the right "contained" 500, but in reality they just randomly assigned the remaining possibilities to the two I unchosen boxes.
Is that what you're saying? Thanks for sharing.
No, in your example the patron would have an equal chance to hit any of the three. In general the machine will not show you values that you could not have won.
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