lavifighter
lavifighter
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December 10th, 2016 at 6:00:41 AM permalink
I don't remember when and where(probably in Israel) but I saw once an strange arcade "shooting" machine, where you can get real money for good performance! You can win 1-1 or 20-1 odds based on performance, and it is not that hard to win 1-1 or 2-1(it not too easy but possible) every for beginners.
I never saw it or any other such games again, again anywhere. I know few skill based games where you can win prizes(like carnivals) but not direct money.
Are this kind of machines allowed in Vegas? They can be great attractions! And they can find a way to make it profitable I guess, like theme parks and carnivals where skill games are still very profitable for the operators.
Mission146
Mission146
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December 10th, 2016 at 6:30:46 AM permalink
I haven't seen any such shooting game, but I've certainly seen many other, 'Games of skill,' though how much skill is actually going to help a person is debatable...depending on the game. There are several of these games upon which direct money can be won, such as the game where you stick a quarter in and have it try to push other quarters off of the edge and you collect whatever falls out, hell, that game is at a friggin' laundromat near me (have a comforter that won't really fit in the washer at the house).

Partially, 'Skill-Based,' slot machines are well on their way to becoming a thing in Las Vegas, and perhaps eventually throughout Nevada and in other states with commercial casinos. These games will be profitable because, in many cases (from what I've heard and what has been posted) some of these machines will not have the capability to return over 100% to any individual player regardless of the skill level of that player.

Theme park and carnival games are profitable because they buy the prizes in bulk, thereby not paying very much for an individual prize at all, and the cost to play v. the probability of someone winning is such that the cost to play exceeds the value of the prize, by expectation. There are even some games upon which a player is guaranteed a prize every time, usually it is just some small thing, so if that game costs $3, you can rest assured that the operator paid well under $3 for that prize.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
charlestfuller
charlestfuller
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December 10th, 2016 at 7:26:23 AM permalink
From what I have read on these, even the most "skilled" of players are going to still deal with a 5% house edge on these machines. It will be interesting to see these grow in popularity just to see how deceiving the win frequency and actual winnings are.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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December 10th, 2016 at 7:59:09 AM permalink
Quote: lavifighter

I don't remember when and where(probably in Israel) but I saw once an strange arcade "shooting" machine, where you can get real money for good performance! You can win 1-1 or 20-1 odds based on performance, and it is not that hard to win 1-1 or 2-1(it not too easy but possible) every for beginners.
I never saw it or any other such games again, again anywhere. I know few skill based games where you can win prizes(like carnivals) but not direct money.
Are this kind of machines allowed in Vegas? They can be great attractions! And they can find a way to make it profitable I guess, like theme parks and carnivals where skill games are still very profitable for the operators.

Any kind of skill game is a threat to the gambling establishment. In Ohio they cracked down on the laws making any kind of win to be a nominal amount like $10. The skill was really nothing compared to random chance. Even had so-called "internet sweepstakes" places around the state, but they all got raided and determined illegal suddenly once casinos had been started. Point is, skill games compete with casinos and lotteries for dollars, and there is little hope of such a thing being allowed independent of gaming regulators. Casinos provide money to the states and the politicians and nothing new will replace them.

You're essentially describing a skill game where gaming would have no control over because it wouldn't really be gambling, random chance secondary. Unless you're the PGA, the PBA, skill will never be a thing which is legal. Pseudo skill is the only option.
I am a robot.
Tanko
Tanko
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mamat
mamat
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December 22nd, 2016 at 3:19:00 PM permalink
Quote: doughtaker

Prior to SB 9, Nevada allowed for a skill-based component to be worth up to 4% of a slot machine's return. That's how IGT got their skill-based bonus games out in Vegas (and Bally prior to that). There used to be five IGT titles that had skill-based bonuses in Vegas at once: Spin Devil, Tully's Treasure Hunt (which Axelwolf played), Blood Life Legends, Aladdin Prince of Adventure, and Atari Centipede. Tully, Aladdin, and Blood Life are essentially the same video reel game in different graphics packages, and those three offered the player a choice of taking free spins or the skill-based bonus. The skill bonuses of Spin Devil and Centipede are mandatory.

I'm surprised and not happy that Spin Devil seems to have outlasted the other four. I believe that its bonus round was by far and away the worst of them all -- gameplay was guaranteed to last for only 20 to 36 seconds; the only way to even come close to that little bonus time in any of the other games was via intentional suicide in Centipede. I'm also convinced that it was the only one of the five IGT games in Vegas where you could play perfectly and still get screwed out of a significant portion of the bonus money accumulated. I vultured IGT's other skill-based bonus games but ignored Spin Devil.

Games in AGS' "It Pays To Know" line of slots typically have multiple bonus features, of which one will be trivia or knowledge-based. But I think only Family Feud can still be found in Vegas and that is definitely not a vulturable game.

As for Frogger, Konami said that they would eventually get a skill-based version out on the casino floor. When that arrives is anyone's guess. The most likely next stop is Space Invaders, from SciGames/WMS/Bally.

Some APs made a killing on "skill-based slots".

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/26319-skill-based-slots
Mobcasinos
Mobcasinos
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January 5th, 2017 at 9:41:08 PM permalink
Casino would not want to get that kind of machine if a player can use its skill. They would lose profit with those kind of machine. Player with a good skill can earn easy money if casino have that kind of machine.
sabre
sabre
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AxelWolf
January 6th, 2017 at 8:43:04 AM permalink
Quote: Mobcasinos

Casino would not want to get that kind of machine if a player can use its skill. They would lose profit with those kind of machine. Player with a good skill can earn easy money if casino have that kind of machine.



Absurd. You can have a skill based game where the maximum payout is less than 100%
prominenttgames
prominenttgames
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August 21st, 2019 at 10:06:26 PM permalink
Skill Base games: Prominentt Games
Zcore13
Zcore13
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MichaelBluejay
August 21st, 2019 at 10:29:11 PM permalink
Quote: prominenttgames

Skill Base games: Prominentt Games



Your games look very basic. And the description of one...

"Happy Fruits a well and truly brought Skill fruit game offers an incredible array of bonus features to play."

What the heck does that mean?


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 22nd, 2019 at 1:11:33 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

Absurd. You can have a skill based game where the maximum payout is less than 100%

It seems like other than poker and perhaps a few other games the casinos hate having any game where a skilled players can gain an advantage, even if it's a player funded advantage. Aside from skill games this type of thinking really limits game manufacturers and casinos from all kinds of interesting and fun slots and other games they could introduce to the casinos.


Aside from skill games, I have no idea what they are thinking with all the new vulture type games they put out now where just about anyone with a few shekels in their pocket can easily make some money. This attracts some really sketchy people, and lots of them. Many of these guys have no shame and are absolutely terrible for the casinos. Most of the money probably goes on drugs and other b*******.

If the casinos really want build a bonus banking type slot machines they should really make it where are you need more than a few bucks in your pocket to get started.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ApellesPromptov
ApellesPromptov
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August 22nd, 2019 at 1:52:09 AM permalink
Absolutely agree with you. It's either "thinking" games like e.g. poker or slots for dumb luck. Although I really wish there were more skill based machines it's probably more for gaming, not gambling.
stephencmarvin
stephencmarvin
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September 24th, 2020 at 10:58:23 PM permalink
Many states have declared skill based gaming machines as non gambling gaming.
Stephan M.
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