Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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April 23rd, 2010 at 2:25:13 PM permalink
I've got a question regarding slot machines. Does the RNG change at all if you change how much you bet when your playing a slot machine? For example, suppose I start betting the minimum of a $1 on a slot machine. And then I switch to betting $2 or $3 or $4 or $5 etc, is there a different RNG algorithm that gets triggerred?

Payouts differ and so does the house advantage as you increase your bets. Do those get reflected on the same RNG or do they switch RNGs?

Or does this not make a material difference at all? (Rub the Buddha, click your heels three times, throw salt over the shoulder, make a sacrifice to the gambling g-o-d-s, and all in baby!)
FootofGod
FootofGod
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April 23rd, 2010 at 2:37:12 PM permalink
Sorry to not speak out of actual, factual knowledge, but I'm pretty sure that you got it right in the last line. There is no need to adjust the RNG, as that is exactly why they change the pay tables for higher bets. The odds are usually improved/made worse by changing the number of lines and the pays, not the RNG. Once again, not speaking from solid data, but that's just how casinos tend to work. However, because of the change in lines/paytables, you definitely usually end up getting better odds if you are betting more money. That is pretty standard for casinos, too (i.e. European roulette is usually only available with $25 minimums, same with single-deck BJ, etc.)
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 23rd, 2010 at 3:35:13 PM permalink
There is only one RNG inside the slot machine and it is not in any way adjusted or subject to being adjusted based on coins or club cards or waitress tipping behavior or time of day or gloom of night.
indiegeek
indiegeek
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April 23rd, 2010 at 6:17:35 PM permalink
I deleted this post, based on the answer to my question being..um...three threads down in the forum :)
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 23rd, 2010 at 6:29:57 PM permalink
A RNG is a computer chip or programming subroutine that picks a random number. No machine needs more than one, even if they wanted it to change things as you are implying.


Theoretically, the machine's Virtual Reel Strips could be changed based upon the coin-in, but I have a feeling that would not be allowed under Gaming rules.

On the other hand, the Virtual Reel Strips probably are changed when the player changes the denomination of a multi-denomination machine.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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April 24th, 2010 at 9:13:53 AM permalink
Thanks for all the replies.

Btw, DJTeddyBear, love that last quote.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 25th, 2010 at 8:10:57 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

A RNG is a computer chip or programming subroutine that picks a random number. No machine needs more than one, even if they wanted it to change things as you are implying.


Theoretically, the machine's Virtual Reel Strips could be changed based upon the coin-in, but I have a feeling that would not be allowed under Gaming rules.

On the other hand, the Virtual Reel Strips probably are changed when the player changes the denomination of a multi-denomination machine.



Correct, the RNG is just that, a random number generator. What happens after that is the important thing. For example, one video roulette game might pay 30-1 for a single number, and another 35-1, but the RNG is the same.

I can affirm that sometimes when you go up in denomination the reel stripping will change, to strips with more high paying symbols. Much like if you move up in coinage on a video poker or video keno machine, you'll see the pay table go up. On some IGT machines you can tell when they do this when the last outcome displayed on the screen changes. Slots do not change the reel stripping based on the number of coins bet. That is why you're generally better off betting a small number of large coins, than a large number of small coins.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 25th, 2010 at 6:21:00 PM permalink
Wiz -

Conventional slot wisdom is that the lower the slot denomination, the worse the odds. And you confirmed that the same thing applies to multi-denomination machines.

And I realize that two identical looking machines sitting next to each can have a different return.



But is it safe to assume that a game in a single denomination machine would generally pay better than the identical game at the identical denomination in a multi denomination game, particularly when set at less than the maximum denomination?

To clarify, I figure it costs the casino a little more to purchase/lease a multi-denomination machine than a single-denomination of the same game. Additionally, a player on the multi-denomination machine, when set at less than the maximum, is preventing another player from playing it at the maximum, giving the casino an additional reason to 'punish' that player with a lower return.

I don't play slots enough to care, but I am curious.

Thanks.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 26th, 2010 at 6:16:38 AM permalink
It depends on the casino. When I did my slot machine survey I noticed some casinos (let's call them type A) had different returns for different denominations on the same machine. Others (type B) kept the same return on all denominations. In my experience such returns were always matched to the smallest denomination. For example, if a type B casino preferred to pay 90% on a 5-cent game, and 94% and a $1 game, and had a multi-denom (short for denomination) game, ranging from 5-cents to $1, it would set all of them to 90%.

If you're at a type A casino, then it shouldn't matter. The slot manager likely has a strict opinion about what return to give what denomination. If you're at a type B casino then you should be indifferent to playing a single-denom game and the lowest denom on a multi-denom game.

Unless you perform the test I mentioned in my last post, you won't know what kind of casino it is. In that case I would recommend that you assume you are at a type B property. In that case, if you must play a multi-denom game, play at the lowest coinage only. This is especially apropos if you're a 25-cent player, because some games will range from 5 cents to 25 cents, and others 25 cents to $2. In that case, play the 25 cent to $2 machine.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 26th, 2010 at 7:17:17 AM permalink
Interesting stuff.

Thanks.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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