Narrowing Vegas Slots Using VP Placement

I've been Watching some Of the wizards youtube vids online and he said Casinos with good VP games usually as a rule of thumb have better slots, is it possible using sites like vpfree2 which have the best vp listed by casino and their locations, that one could narrow a search for a loose slot (I.E. if the good vp is their it is reasonable to think that good slots are around as well)? if it holds up you one would be able to use the narrowed search to find a Machine with a statistically favorable denomination if I remember correctly the best is usually $1 and then have a much better chance at a decent Machine right?

It's "possible", but this makes a number of assumptions - the first of which is, that there is some way to rank the casinos by "best VP".

It's more of a general indicator than a hard and fast rule - IMO, dollar slots will be looser downtown than on the Strip.

You have to be on the ground to find the best slots. Sure, you can figure out what casinos have the best base pays, or even all of the return charts illustrate what casinos had the highest returns, but all of that crap is irrelevant, really. The best thing to look for is a slot machine with multiple Progressives with higher totals on the lower Progressives that put you at or near 100% ER, QuickHits are a great example of same. Don't get me wrong, 100%+ ER is 100%+ ER, just like VP machines count on RF's, SF's and Quad Deuces (Deuces Wild) and other unikely things depending on the game, but if you can get most of that +ER% on the lower (and hence, more likely) Progessives, then all the better. Additionally, you don't need to know any strategy except always Max Bet.

" Additionally, you don't need to know any strategy except always Max Bet. " I prefer minimum bet 5 x1 on pennies. especially when I hit for $100 or more LOL

Quote: Mission146

look for is a slot machine with multiple Progressives with higher totals on the lower Progressives that put you at or near 100% ER,

But how would I even know that? Is there any way to know the base ER of any given slot machine? Also, one would need to know the probability of any given progressive hitting... Have I been missing some vital information on slots?

Quote: Canyonero

But how would I even know that? Is there any way to know the base ER of any given slot machine? Also, one would need to know the probability of any given progressive hitting... Have I been missing some vital information on slots?

I would suggest doing a search for, "Quick Hits," using the Search function of the Forum. I've been involved in a couple of threads in which those have been discussed at length, and the very probabilities that you speak of have been linked to in one of those threads.

WMS, Advantage Slots thread...

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/11115-nice-little-jackpot-on-a-wongable-slot-from-wms/

I kind of projected an advantage point for that machine, though it required a few assumptions.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/big-wins/11728-keno-anyone/2/

Tringlomane linked to the Quick Hits payouts/probabilities on Page 2, so that's a good link to look at. If you cannot reasonably guess at the Base ER of any one of those machines, you could always assume the worst and go from there.

The Wiz has also done slot machine deconstructions on WoO, so you could check those out and follow the same procedure to determine the base pays on a Progressive machine, if you were so inclined. It's very important that the Base Game works on the same premise as the Free Games (if applicable) or you'd have to determine the payouts/probabilties on the Free Games separately, which is nearly impossible. If you can find a Progressive machine where you can bet 1 Line at 1 Unit per Line, then you hurt your ER by noit Max betting, but you can get the payouts/probabilties figured out as The Wiz did relatively cheaply...if not extremely time-consuming.

I just stick to Quick Hits, though, because knowing the Progressive probabilties already gives me the opportunity to do a little simple math (see Page 3 on the lower thread linked) to determine about where I am on ER.

> Casinos with good VP games usually as a rule of thumb have better slots,....
Yes. Any casino that for market reasons has to offer good VP games will usually for the same marketing reasons have to offer good slot returns. Such casinos do not have much in the gawk or glitter departments, don't have major showrooms, often don't have minor showrooms and just plain have to try harder than the opulent palaces on the strip.
> is it possible that one could narrow a search for a loose slot
Sure but you could narrow that search just as effectively by making a subjective judgment about its glamor factor. ALL casinos will still have a mix of slots and a mix of VP offerings. For a variety of marketing reasons, types and locations change. Even if you know one really great VP machine is located smack dab in the middle of Locals Casino "X", that doesn't tell you much about the nearest slot machine. Often a really good VP machine gets hogged and so its changed out. Or a set of slot machines gets moved solely for crowd control reasons. It doesn't always have to do with returns.
> the narrowed search to find a Machine with a statistically favorable denomination ...
You can already determine that by Gaming Board data for major geographies. Boulder Strip is best, then downtown then The Strip. NLV is ignored for having too few licensees to have reliable stats and too far to trek to anyway.

If you want to get any grainier.... its an illusion and will cost you more in shoe leather than you are ever going to make in lowered house edge.

duplicate posting.

@mission146

Thanks, that was very helpful!

You're welcome.

Quote: Mission146

The Wiz has also done slot machine deconstructions on WoO, so you could check those out and follow the same procedure to determine the base pays on a Progressive machine, if you were so inclined. It's very important that the Base Game works on the same premise as the Free Games (if applicable) or you'd have to determine the payouts/probabilties on the Free Games separately, which is nearly impossible.

Unfortunately most modern slot machine games with free spins use bonus reels with more favorable probabilities, it would take thousands of spins to collect enough bonus spin data in these cases.

I did it for "Stinkin' Rich" on the IGT PC Game, I had to mash the button for hours to get 500 bonus spins. And I have been distracted with other things to analyze it. Also I am worried that 500 spins won't be enough...bah

That sucks in a big way!

I think it would be virtually impossible with Quick Hits Platinum because it switches from game-to-game so quickly, so the only thing that would really be trackable are winning combinations. Fortunately, there is that website to which you linked that spoonfeeds the probabilties and base returns.

There are other Quick Hits Progressive machines, however, where the Free Games premise is the same as that of the Base Game. In fact, one of them is Quick Hits Doublke Platinum (I played this at Scioto Downs) which operates as the name implies. I don't know that the symbol probabilties are the same, though.

It'd be nice if all of the slot machine companies released their Base Pays and Progressive Probabilities, at least, nice for those who would like to play Slots at a slight advantage, or at least close to 100% ER. Someone will eventually hit the Progressive(s) anyway, so I really fail to see what difference it could make to the manufacturer or the casinos.

Quote: Mission146

That sucks in a big way!

I think it would be virtually impossible with Quick Hits Platinum because it switches from game-to-game so quickly, so the only thing that would really be trackable are winning combinations. Fortunately, there is that website to which you linked that spoonfeeds the probabilties and base returns.

There are other Quick Hits Progressive machines, however, where the Free Games premise is the same as that of the Base Game. In fact, one of them is Quick Hits Doublke Platinum (I played this at Scioto Downs) which operates as the name implies. I don't know that the symbol probabilties are the same, though.

It'd be nice if all of the slot machine companies released their Base Pays and Progressive Probabilities, at least, nice for those who would like to play Slots at a slight advantage, or at least close to 100% ER. Someone will eventually hit the Progressive(s) anyway, so I really fail to see what difference it could make to the manufacturer or the casinos.

Yeah when I collected bonus spins for "Stinking Rich" I missed most spins after a non-win because I was using "Print Screen" and copying and pasting into "Paint".

Unless the bonus spins give a multiplier instead, or give a very generous amount of free spins, they are usually different reels. This is typically disclosed in small print on the pays/help screen. Playing bonus games with the normal reels will generally lead to depressing bonus wins that tick people off (any small bonus ticks me off...haha).

I would also prefer casinos/slot manufacturers be more willing to disclose payout data more freely. It really won't change their profits significantly. Most people that play slots don't care about what the actual payout is.

Quote: tringlomane

Unless the bonus spins give a multiplier instead, or give a very generous amount of free spins, they are usually different reels. This is typically disclosed in small print on the pays/help screen. Playing bonus games with the normal reels will generally lead to depressing bonus wins that tick people off (any small bonus ticks me off...haha).

I agree about the small bonuses. That is one thing that occurred to me as strange about the Quick Hits Platinum v. the Quick Hits Double Platinum, the picking portion by which your number of Free Games (retriggers up to 50 total including initial Free Games) and multiplier (Always 2x, except 3x on three 20 Free Games or 2 20 Free Games + Wild + 5 symbol) is exactly the same...and, in fact, I believe is the same as every Quick Hits machine. However, some operate on different reels and some do not.

For example:

1.) I have never seen a Quick Hits flat-top that operated on different reels.

2.) Every Quick Hits Platinum (Max Bet $1.50) has operated on different reels.

3.) The $0.05 * 9 Lines * 5/Line (Max Bet $2.25) Progressives do not operate on different reels.

4.) The Quick Hits Double Platinums (Max Bet $3.00) I have seen have not.

...The list goes on.

Quote:

I would also prefer casinos/slot manufacturers be more willing to disclose payout data more freely. It really won't change their profits significantly. Most people that play slots don't care about what the actual payout is.

I agree with you 100%. I don't know how many times I tell people playing Quick Hits Platinum at $0.60/pull that they would do well to either Max Bet or find some kind of $0.25/denom or $0.50/denom machine with a perfectly graduated payout. I guess I don't always tell them that, though, sometimes it is at a linked Progressive bank, so I do the selfish thing and let them feed that for me with 0 chance of hitting it.