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24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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September 17th, 2012 at 9:14:36 PM permalink
I think I'd just keep betting a 25¢ or $1 machine full-coin until I was $500 down or $500 up... not more than $2 a spin.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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September 17th, 2012 at 9:14:45 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

Now I see we are on the same page. Take the $100 spins. Then failing to win, play whatever low denomination has the best paytable. Doubt $1 would have too much more variance than 25-cents given 500 spins compared to 2 000. If they're good machines you'll likely lose a small amount either way. Might even finish up $10 or $20



Exactly! That's the idea.

I think I was getting confused because I thought you were suggesting that I take the $100 pulls with the Rebate AND original $500, not just the original, as I intended.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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September 17th, 2012 at 11:53:48 PM permalink
with slot-loss rebates the strategy is to try to lose but hope you win. high denomination and high variance are the most important when trying to lose the money. if you do happen to lose, high return is the most important when collecting on the rebate.
Mission146
Mission146
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September 18th, 2012 at 8:58:02 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

with slot-loss rebates the strategy is to try to lose but hope you win. high denomination and high variance are the most important when trying to lose the money. if you do happen to lose, high return is the most important when collecting on the rebate.



Can I assume you agree with me on minimizing the effect of variance on the ER once the rebate is had, and effectively, agree with my strategy?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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September 22nd, 2012 at 1:37:42 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Can I assume you agree with me on minimizing the effect of variance on the ER once the rebate is had, and effectively, agree with my strategy?



Depends on how much of a gambler rudeboyoi is. If you don't care about your end result at all, then it should be the highest ER machine you can find, period. If you are looking to guarantee a decent return from your freeplay, then play the lower denomination and eat the ER difference.

When I did a slot/video poker rebate earlier this year, I incurred most of my losses on a dollar VP machine (99.17%). My 4 to a Royal didn't come through obviously and I lost $350. I grinded about 95% of the loss back by playing multiline penny poker, or single line nickels both w/Super Times Pay because I didn't really want to lose hundreds of my own money. The return on these machines were 97.13%, but playing these lower denomination machines guaranteed me a large portion of my money back. Playing the full pay poker machine would have saved me about $7 in ER, but there would be a significant chance I would have lost a good portion of the freeplay if I ran poorly.
MangoJ
MangoJ
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September 23rd, 2012 at 2:29:29 AM permalink
I must agree with rudeboy. For a loss rebate, you need high variance, because the loss rebate only kicks in if you are on the negative variance side.
You want to maximize the probability being on the negative variance side while also minimizing expected losses. High variance games with low house edge are the way to go.

However, I don't agree with Tom on the statement that the loss rebate is worth $250 (minus house edge). The $250 figure is correct only for even bets like blackjack or color on roulette. If the variance is much higher (and slot variance is large) the loss rebate is worth much more.

Example: Let's assume a simple slot machine model only paying 90 units on every 100 spins. House edge is whipping 10%, but with loss rebate it is a nice game.
A good strategy could be: play $100 a spin, stop when you hit the win, or lose $500 (so 5 spins max).

Expected results are:

spins probability pre rebate rebate value post rebate
W 1% $9000 $0 $9000
LW 0.99% $8900 $0 $8900
LLW 0.98% $8800 $0 $8800
LLLW 0.97% $8700 $0 $8700
LLLLW 0.96% $8600 $0 $8600
LLLLL 95.1% -$500 $500 $0
EV 100% -$44.20 $475.50 $431.30


So the loss rebate for this game - with this strategy - is worth $431.30. However you *must* face the large probability of losing your $500. In fact you would want to maximize the probability of this very unfavourable result. (homework: calculate the loss rebate value for a single spin of $500 and for 50 spins of $10).
ahiromu
ahiromu
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September 23rd, 2012 at 3:46:36 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Incorrect. Again, the expected return is $250 minus the house edge which is compounded every spin. At $100 per spin the house edge only cuts into the expected return five times. At 25-cents per spin the house edge cuts into your expected return thousands of times, making it much closer to zero (so in that case, you likely would achieve the expected return)

Though it is somewhat depended on paytable. For state-wide progressive level, more spins at the smaller denomination would give you less variance, but your stated intention is to win $500, not $500 000



I'm sorry if I misunderstood you here, but as written I disagree. If you spin five times and win 100 each and leave at +500, that is the same as spinning 500 once, winning, and leaving. The issue is that you will most likely lose or push, making it so that you have to put 1000 or 1500 through.

Edit: That is assuming every slot machine in this analogy has the same return.
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bryan995
bryan995
Joined: Nov 29, 2015
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November 29th, 2015 at 5:34:45 PM permalink
I just found this thread/forum while researching current promotions for my upcoming vegas trip, thanks OP!

This is quite the promotion, no? Seems like very low risk.
Is the rebate set up ahead of time for 1 single machine/session? (it must be, no?)

-

For the first $500 (cash), you want the highest ER possible.
So $100 denom machines, or $25 TD / WOF ? :-)
If you win > 500-1000, stop, otherwise keep going until big win or total loss.

If total loss (-$500), then exercise loss reimbursement.

For both day2 ($250 FP) and day3 ($250 FP) either again dump into HL machines and hope for the best, or slowly unlock your $ on a low denom VP machine (with small house edge). For the later, after the ER and house edge, you should end up with a conservative ~$400-450 back in cash. As OP stated, you then just basically traded $50-$100 for 5x$100 shots at a HUGE payout.

Does this sound about right?

If I lose the initial $500 cash in 5 spins, it is technically no different than if it takes me 30 spins to lose it all (due to lots of small interspersed wins).
And if I win big with the rebate1 freeplay, that does not affect the rebate2 coming the next day, does it?
rushdl
rushdl
Joined: Jan 15, 2016
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March 5th, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM permalink
When you get your recoup, no matter how much (50-500 I hear), will be in the form of slot play coupons broken up into smaller pieces over the month (As Is here at Hollywood). So in this case it might be best to work your strategy out to the next level before diving in... what to do with these new coups and how to play them too. Just a thought.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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March 5th, 2016 at 7:43:55 PM permalink
Quote: rushdl

When you get your recoup, no matter how much (50-500 I hear), will be in the form of slot play coupons broken up into smaller pieces over the month (As Is here at Hollywood). So in this case it might be best to work your strategy out to the next level before diving in... what to do with these new coups and how to play them too. Just a thought.



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