Joeman
Joeman
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
  • Threads: 35
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March 14th, 2016 at 6:49:59 AM permalink
First off, I feel for you -- it sucks when your pot (or even the 1/2 that was yours) gets pushed to the other guy.

I've been playing poker (draw & stud) since my hands were big enough to hold 5 cards at once, but when I started to learn community card poker games (Holdem & Omaha), I struggled correctly reading the board at first. It can get confusing, especially when your hand is counterfeited by cards coming on the turn & river.

I would suggest, before your next session, grabbing a deck of cards, dealing two to yourself, and then the flop, turn, and river. At each stage, examine what would be the best hand (nuts) based on what is on the board. Also, look at your hand, and think what cards would best improve your hand.

Keep repeating this exercise until you know the answers to those questions 100%. Pay special attention to when a card comes that improves the value of your hand but at the same time reduces your likelihood of winning. The hand you described above is a perfect example. Your 2 pair improved to a flush, but now anyone with a club higher than the 2c beats you.

Quote: spr1000

There's 3 players in the hand. I'm in middle position,and limp in for $2 with Jd 8s. The flop comes Jc 8c 3c. Obviously not a great flop for me

I disagree. This is about the best flop you could have hoped for, limping in with your hand (See Axel's comments above about playing J-8 off). You obviously don't like the 3 clubs, but your top 2 pair is most likely the best hand out there. If you come over the top of the flop raise, you'll probably take it down right there (or at least know that you are way behind).

Quote: AxelWolf

If for some reason you cant see speak up

+1

If there ever is a question in your mind of whether your hand is beaten, ask the dealer if she will show you the opponent's cards, and the five-card combo that beats you.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 5552
March 14th, 2016 at 8:10:46 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'll be blunt. First. you are miss using the term runner-runner in this scenario. Runner-runner means both the turn and the river complete your hand. Second. YOU shouldn't be playing J-8 off in middle(or late) position unless you are an advanced player or you have special circumstances. I can think of many situations where an advanced player could justify playing J-8 off. Unfortunately it's a crap hand
Someone will probably argue you can limp in with it in the cut off or the button depending on how many callers assuming the blinds are not aggressive tricky player. He can probably argue a case for himself however he's probably an advanced player.

Monetarily speaking, I don't think you should be playing NL poker if you can't tell if you tie with your opponent or not and you don't know when to play the board. Your first instinct should have been to look at your opponents hand and see what club he may of had. If for some reason you cant see speak up.

The times I have seen situations like this the floor will oftentimes go to the muck or call surveillance. Unfortunately I have seen situations where the player who incorrectly had the pot pushed to him refused to give it back. They said it would come out of the dealers pay.

All of this plus you should be raising on the flop to see where you are. You flopped top 2 pair and the odds of floppign a flush are actually much much less than most people think. Someone could be betting a pair, or a single club draw and this is your chance to take the pot down with the best hand, which a raise on the flop here sounds like it would have gotten both players to fold.

Just throwing in some thoughts when reading your story. So did the pot end up going to the other player and you/no one else said anything? If that's the case, I agree you probably shouldn't be playing yet if you can't decipher hands and decide who beats who.
Last edited by: Romes on Mar 14, 2016
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 193
  • Posts: 10669
March 14th, 2016 at 9:33:05 AM permalink
Yeah, dealers occasionally make mistakes. So do players.

If you're unsure, stop the dealer and ask. Usually a dealer who has mis-read the hands will get it right when they slow down to do it the second time.

As others have said, you seem like too much of a novice to be playing no limit. Do a Google search for Pub Poker League in your area. Play, and learn, for the price of a burger and a beer.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
spr1000
spr1000
Joined: Oct 24, 2014
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  • Posts: 44
March 14th, 2016 at 3:46:50 PM permalink
I disagree. This is about the best flop you could have hoped for, limping in with your hand (See Axel's comments above about playing J-8 off). You obviously don't like the 3 clubs, but your top 2 pair is most likely the best hand out there. If you come over the top of the flop raise, you'll probably take it down right there (or at least know that you are way behind).

Yes,Total beginner mistake on my end! Future flops were I've been in the same situation I've bet aggressively to get information and or steal the pot representing a strong hand.

+1

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