AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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August 18th, 2014 at 3:38:17 AM permalink
The least amount of chips on table might yield the highest ev percentage wiz, but not hourly. In your case, if you do better over all this way per hr, it means you have a big leak in your game somewhere. Probably not folding when you should, after the flop, turn or river.

Rat-holing is a form of cheating(i'm not judging). If someone takes 5 buck here and there no biggie. If I notice a player missing 100 or more, I ask him where his chips are. People should be paying attention to chip stacks.

The rule is in place so other players have a chance to get their money back while that person is still in the game. You might have paid him off just to see his hand, now you have a read on him. It's different then hitting and running, you cant force someone to gamble.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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August 18th, 2014 at 6:23:23 AM permalink
Hit and runs are not illegal because a casino cannot force someone to make bets against their will. People don't LIKE hit and runs, but everyone can see it would be unfair and borderline insane to force someone to play when they wanted to leave.

Short stacking is +ev if you are good at it, but it creates problems for the other players, especially if they want to make moves. I figure they allow it to let some small money tourist types to come sit in the game. Especially if they just want to dip their toe in and might eventually become more regular players. They don't particularly want +ev short stackers to be a constant presence and a thorn in the side of all the other players. Plus, as you said, you take down plenty of rake free pots. Yeah, casino's got to love that.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 18th, 2014 at 6:49:13 AM permalink
The rule is simple and correct. And many/most players DO care about it.

If a player loses money, he has a right to try to win it back.

If the winner leaves, well ok. He locked up a win. Good for him.
But if he ratholes, then he has an unfair advantage.

Note that minor ratholing is accepted. IE, you can take a souvenir chip. It's expected and encouraged. Ditto for paying for table-side food and massage.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 18th, 2014 at 6:53:07 AM permalink
And a hit and run is not illegal. Bad manners, perhaps, but no rule forbids it.

After all, what's the difference between a hit and run, and a hit followed by folding the next X number of hands and then leaving?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 18th, 2014 at 7:39:04 AM permalink
I am an inexperienced poker player, and I mostly play tournaments, not cash. However, part of my neophyte betting strategy does take into account the size of other players' stacks, and the amount of apparent risk to them of calling or raising me. It puts them on a range of hands, defines their strategy, and delineates their tolerance of risk. They are able to make the same estimates of my play, because my exposure is public.

Based on that, I find ratholing duplicitous and deceptive. You are no longer on equal footing with the people you're betting against, with the same exposure; instead, you have hidden reserves that violate the base values of the game as it is played. If you want to be a short-stack-shover, so be it, when the time comes in the game that it's appropriate to do so. But as your opponent, I have a right to know your resources and fairly evaluate my risk in calling you, or putting you all-in, rather than be trapped into a false premise. Poker is a game of bluffs and lies, but that's based on the cards and your demeanor, not on the size of your stake. I'm usually the fish (for now, anyway), but I'm only willing to play straight up, and the OP is cheating in my book.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
dwheatley
dwheatley
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
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August 18th, 2014 at 7:50:24 AM permalink
I don't think the OP intends on putting hidden chips into a live hand. He just wants to limit his exposure at any given time to ~20BB.

This practice is sometimes called 'going south', but the technical difference between that and ratholing is debated for some silly reason. Here's a thread with many opinions at home games that may shine a light on why poker rooms have the rule:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/24/home-poker/ever-ok-go-south-928567/
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
Buzzard
Buzzard
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August 18th, 2014 at 8:05:34 AM permalink
It is called RATholing for a reason. DUH !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Dieter
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Dieter
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August 18th, 2014 at 8:07:12 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

If a player loses money, he has a right to try to win it back.



I don't understand that as an intrinsic right, merely a commonly offered courtesy. I don't know why I would be compelled to place a bet on any future round.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

After all, what's the difference between a hit and run, and a hit followed by folding the next X number of hands and then leaving?



Blinds.
May the cards fall in your favor.
texasplumr
texasplumr
Joined: Mar 6, 2011
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August 18th, 2014 at 8:15:27 AM permalink
I thought 'ratholing" and "going south" were the same. Silly me. At any rate, I've never done it and don't like it. I've seen fights nearly start over it too. In the poker room. BBB had a great explanation of why it's against the rules. Basically, to me, it's cheating.

At a pot limit table a few years back I did win a bonus for four Jacks. It was $100.00 and when I was paid I was told I didn't have to put it on the table. I did but I could have pocketed them and it would have been acceptable.
Stupid is a choice
24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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August 18th, 2014 at 8:22:58 AM permalink
Well, that's different; that's not part of the game.

Quote: BatMann

So why is ratholing against the rules but hit-and-run not?



Because that would be false imprisonment?
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.

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