Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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April 28th, 2014 at 6:08:43 AM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

In cash game holdem you either win a small pot or lose a big pot with pocket Aces.



This is idiotic. By this logic you should just fold them preflop. How about you raise them to a decent number, see if you get callers, and play out the hand?
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
dwheatley
dwheatley
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April 28th, 2014 at 6:14:10 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

This is idiotic. By this logic you should just fold them preflop. How about you raise them to a decent number, see if you get callers, and play out the hand?



mickey's post is a common saying about AA. It's not 100% accurate, but it's also not idiotic. If you win a small pot a large % of the time, and lose a big post a small %, it's still +EV. You are supposed to raise them and see if you get callers, that's the whole point. And then it leads to the saying. Give me a break.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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April 28th, 2014 at 6:27:07 AM permalink
Quote: dwheatley

mickey's post is a common saying about AA. It's not 100% accurate, but it's also not idiotic. If you win a small pot a large % of the time, and lose a big post a small %, it's still +EV. You are supposed to raise them and see if you get callers, that's the whole point. And then it leads to the saying. Give me a break.



Yeah but that means you're just under betting or over betting them preflop. If you under bet, you either get drawn out on pre and can't fold and lose a big one. Or you bet the flop and everyone folds and you win a small pot.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
petro
petro
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October 31st, 2016 at 12:15:23 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

When I first began to learn poker, I liked to go all in with AA preflop. People kept telling me that was wrong and I asked why. They said "Because you'll most likely make other people fold and you would make much more money if you played your AA out instead of scaring the opponents to fold like that"


I'm not too sure about it but I can say if you go all in you will probably scare too many people off.
Last edited by: petro on Oct 31, 2016
Romes
Romes
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October 31st, 2016 at 12:56:23 PM permalink
Quote: petro

That's the right advice. You want to slowplay a pair of aces. If you go all in you will scare too many people off.

"It's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one."

The truly correct advice is it depends. Are you at a crazy table where people are "normally" going all in pre-flop and getting called? If you can get away with it the best thing to do is to get your money in pre-flop when you have a guaranteed mathematical edge. The reason they told you not to is if there's $5 in the pot and you shove all in for $300 then why on earth would anyone want to call?

Slow playing Aces is usually the death of aces. Look at the mass majority of pro's today... When they flop a set/etc, they press with it like it's Top Pair. Everyone is used to seeing the check raise trap which typically indicates a very strong hand. Bet what you think you'll get one or two callers with. You DON'T WANT 5 other players going to the flop by "slow playing" and just calling, etc. If you have AA, and there's 5 other people in the hand going to the flop... you are NOT the favorite. You have the highest edge out of everyone, but the other 5 "combined" will have a higher percentage... meaning the majority of the time your hand will not win.

Ex.
1) A-A (47%)
2) K-Q (10%)
3) 5-5 (18%)
4) 10h-9h (20%)
5) A-J (5%)

It doesn't matter if #2, #3, #4, or #5 win the hand... If you don't win, you lose... So you are 47% to win while the table as a whole will win 53% of the time. Thus, you will LOSE more than you'll win when you play soft and let others see the flop.

I'll reiterate "It's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one."
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
FTB
FTB
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February 1st, 2019 at 3:35:21 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

When I first began to learn poker, I liked to go all in with AA preflop. People kept telling me that was wrong and I asked why. They said "Because you'll most likely make other people fold and you would make much more money if you played your AA out instead of scaring the opponents to fold like that"

And now, I would like to challenge that seemingly consensus thought.

If you go online and google "Poker starting hands by EV", you will see many charts documenting the power of AA in a 9 handed game. Such as this one. http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-strategy/texas-holdem-expected-value-hand-charts-9-players-19149

AA's EV is 2.35-2.81 BB depending on your position.

Here's why I challenge the conventional thinking

Let's say you're dealer, you're looking at the 2.81 EV.

In a typical game, I'd say there is an average of 2 callers before you.

Shove all in, and if they fold, you get the calls of those 2 people + SB + BB = 3.5BB total!

If you shove all in and somehow someone calls, you get even more BB!

Play it out and you only get 2.81 BB

And did you forget rake? Most poker rooms have a no flop no rake policy. If you play it out you're also vulnerable to rake, futher killing your 2.81BB profit that you wouldn't be if you just shoved and collected your 3.5 BB.

Feedback on this?



As others have mentioned, it all depends on the circumstances.

I never go all in preflop with pocket aces (unless under obvious conditions). It's like a huge neon sign that scares everybody away.

Hide the strength of your hand, especially when playing against a table of mostly tight players.

If it makes you feel better, make a good bet preflop but resist the urge to excitedly go all in.

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