The dealers responsibility?

I was wondering what is the dealers responsibility in these type of situations.

For example most of the poker rooms in reno where I play has a "house rule".....no critisizing another gamblers play

so a player that got called going into the river and gets beat on the river by the caller....cant comment to anyone at the table"that was a stupid play" or "this guy calls me on the river...is this his first time playing"...no critique.

So that happens all the time and dealers usually dont say a thing. However if the person being verbally pummelled asks for the floor to come over...then something is said by the floor.

In my opinion (and it may be wrong)...is that the dealer needs to take control of the table and say something. but i think he/she doesnt want to be the "bad guy"

Same for cursing at the table....nothing is done unless a player calls the floor over

so I guess is this type of thing I should expect from the dealer.....I am not sure.

I always thought that the floor would settle disputes...like..."he is critisizing me"...."no i am not"...call the floor

but in my opionion ..once the initial critisim starts....the dealer should head it off and stop it in its tracks before the floor has to come over/

the dealer's job is to deal. traditionally, the floor handles issues of player abuse. so at most, the dealer should call the floor over if he feels a player is being abused. otherwise, dummy up and deal.

a good dealer almost never needs to call the floor...he should have control over his table no matter what game he is dealing.

deleted

I guess we have to distinguish here between regular main floor dealers and poker dealers.

1) Main floor dealers shouldn't engage the guests past being nice, asking about their day, making polite conversation....that's it. They are there to deal and they have a lot going on. When a situation escalates past "hi, how are you" then they should immediately call the floor over who should then be in a better position to understand the complaint and take action.
2) The poker dealer is slightly different in my opinion. They are more verbally involved with their players and should be able to at least diffuse a situation before a floor is needed, however when a situation becomes untennable then he should have no qualms in calling the floor over immediately who should then handle the issue.

I feel like poker dealers are more like poker hosts who deal too. They need to have more inter personal skills than a regular dealer. This is only my opinion so respect that please.
My friend from Vegas, a poker pro learned how to deal poker at Harrah's in 2 nights and he makes more money than anyone else because, first and foremost, he is a talker who likes to chat about everything from poker to golf to fishing to girls......

Then you get the 70 year old Asian lady who is dealing blackjack........

If everyone is trained differently then I have no basis to complain

But if one person critisizes the play of another, and the player is too shy, weak, to complain or say something, it still does make it uncomfortable for others at the table. For me its up to the dealer to take control even if no one complains...because people suffer silently
and bystanders can be made to feel uncomortable.

I have never withheld a tip for allowing bad behavior. I dont think the dealer would put 2 and 2 together and understand why I withheld the tip and just think I was cheap...unless I actually explained why.

But if the dealer has no authority to interject and enforce house rules......then I guess they get a pass

I would tend to agree with ontario dealer.....I would think dealers can enforce house rules at a table. and if there is any pushback...they can call the floor over.

another responsibility of thepoker dealer in my opinion that doesnt occur is when someone is out of the hand and sees the flop and exclaims "hell I had jack three"

dealer rarely says anything....and a player has to chime in.

In fact once someone who didnt have cards(and wasnt dealt any) jokeingly said that when I was in a hand.....and I complained to the dealer...and the dealer told me.."she didnt have cards".....and I said ..lI dont care....i have no idea if my opponent knew she had no cards..and her declaration can affect action.

Its like dealers in poker just dont want to get involved.....but shouldnt they be enforcing poker rules. I mean they enforce poker rules as far as letting someone know they bet out of turn,or letting them know it was a string bet........can they pick and choose what rules get enforced?

Quote: LarryS

........can they pick and choose what rules get enforced?

No, they can't. It is their job to uphold all procedural rules of poker such as betting, amounts, action, most assuredly what people are and are not allowed to proclaim during a hand.

I do want to mention though that the question you asked in your OP, although according to you a steadfast rule in the casino you play, it isn't usually procedural simply a rule to preserve the harmony at the table.

I would think the latter would be much harder for the dealers to chime in than the former, imo.

Quote: Tomspur

No, they can't. It is their job to uphold all procedural rules of poker such as betting, amounts, action, most assuredly what people are and are not allowed to proclaim during a hand.

I do want to mention though that the question you asked in your OP, although according to you a steadfast rule in the casino you play, it isn't usually procedural simply a rule to preserve the harmony at the table.

I would think the latter would be much harder for the dealers to chime in than the former, imo.

everypoker room has "house rules",,,at least most do

since the dealer works for "the house"....anbd there are "house rules"....why wouldnt they be responsible for enforcing them/

the rules are generally posted.

does the poker room want people getting up from a table because its not tolerable and cashing out....or do they want the dealer to get involved...and in my view....do their job

any dealer has the ammuniton in any game to take charge....example, poker player starts swearing and you ask him nicely to please watch his language

he either 1/ watches his language and the game goes on.

or 2/ he mouths off, swears some more etc.....dealer can call the floor or on the next hand just don't deal the guy any cards (very effective)

Quote: LarryS

everypoker room has "house rules",,,at least most do

since the dealer works for "the house"....anbd there are "house rules"....why wouldnt they be responsible for enforcing them/

the rules are generally posted.

does the poker room want people getting up from a table because its not tolerable and cashing out....or do they want the dealer to get involved...and in my view....do their job

If only the world was filled with people who always did their jobs.

I guess it very much has to do with dealers personalities as well. If they are naturally quiet people they will very easily forego their procedures for self preservation. On the other hand if you have a boisterous dealer then he probably won't mind getting involved and asking the players to cut it out.

It is a slipperly slope imo.

Not all dealers can handle that job. Others would have a hard time defining between gentle ribbing and bullying. Usually a dealer who has been around a while can handle things easily, but not everybody has the same talents. An added factor, not found at other table games, is another player takes your money, not the house.
I hate the idiots who always tell another player how dumb he was to call, the pots odds were against him, etc. Believe me, most bad
players can play tighter when provoked. I usually try to be a gracious loser. " Wow, I tried to make you lay that draw down. " Or
" That's why they call it the River. "
Usually an angry loser won't leave the casino, but take his money to another table. GRRRR

Good poker dealers make it look easy. It ain't.

Quote: LarryS

I was wondering what is the dealers responsibility in these type of situations.

For example most of the poker rooms in reno where I play has a "house rule".....no critisizing another gamblers play

so a player that got called going into the river and gets beat on the river by the caller....cant comment to anyone at the table"that was a stupid play" or "this guy calls me on the river...is this his first time playing"...no critique.

So that happens all the time and dealers usually dont say a thing. However if the person being verbally pummelled asks for the floor to come over...then something is said by the floor.

In my opinion (and it may be wrong)...is that the dealer needs to take control of the table and say something. but i think he/she doesnt want to be the "bad guy"

Same for cursing at the table....nothing is done unless a player calls the floor over

so I guess is this type of thing I should expect from the dealer.....I am not sure.

I always thought that the floor would settle disputes...like..."he is critisizing me"...."no i am not"...call the floor

but in my opionion ..once the initial critisim starts....the dealer should head it off and stop it in its tracks before the floor has to come over/

If you quit being a Donk and calling gunshots all in on the turn, and then suck out on the river, No one will call you names, problem solved.

The dealer should chastise people for all the things you mentioned if its overboard and its clear this behavior is unwelcome.

People are to sensitive in poker, some leeway should be given. As long as you don't outright call people horrible names.

At the limits your playing, table talk about hands have very little affect on the game, TRUST ME. You can play with cards face up, tell people exactly what you have or not even look at your cards and you can still manipulate people, especially tight players.

The HardRock used to have Trash talking Tuesdays where trash talk was encouraged (no talk about race or peoples moms) other then that all was fair game with the exceptions of if you made a REAL threat. The games were completely full with a mile long waiting list, with all kinds of limits and games and this was after Black Friday. Eventually the guy who ran the room got promoted to a better job, Some C--T lady took over and took the trash talking away and some other promotions. The brand new, high cost, dedicated, awesome poker room went down hill in only months. They had to close the poker room and now its in the pit. They are losing money now and run desperate promotions, just to keep the few tables alive.

Axel, you are right on. Does not matter that much who the Blackjack table games manager is, but a good poker room manager is worth his weight in gold. In most poker rooms there are a few regular players who have the manager's ear. They decide what games are spread, tournament structure, even what tournament games on what nights.
Plus he will weed out poor dealers and spin them off to BJ. Good dealers have a following and can bring players into your room. And a female dealer with a great personality, what a pleasure. Few and far between !

Quote: Tomspur

If only the world was filled with people who always did their jobs.

I guess it very much has to do with dealers personalities as well. If they are naturally quiet people they will very easily forego their procedures for self preservation. On the other hand if you have a boisterous dealer then he probably won't mind getting involved and asking the players to cut it out.

It is a slipperly slope imo.

this is an extremely accurate portrayal of what goes on.

Quote: Tomspur

If only the world was filled with people who always did their jobs.

I guess it very much has to do with dealers personalities as well. If they are naturally quiet people they will very easily forego their procedures for self preservation. On the other hand if you have a boisterous dealer then he probably won't mind getting involved and asking the players to cut it out.

It is a slipperly slope imo.

there is one poker room that i will never go to. I was at a table where one player was constantly cursing, one critisized others, and another hot head had a tendency to thro cards when he lost. It was very uncomfortable for me to stay there.

I guess what you are saying that it was my responsibility to call the floor over and register a complaint about each player...because its not the dealers job.
I dissagree...I feel the dealer could have done something to control things. It should not be on me to insist on proper conditions. It shouldnt be on me to insist house rules are followed. Instead other players suffered in silence, and I decided to leave(not change tables).
In my pinion if the dealer is too shy or doesnt have the "personality" to handle the situation...then they dont belong being dealers. A timid shy person doesnt deserve a job in public speaking, and a timid shy person doesnt deserve a job that requires enforcing rules. A timid shy person doesnt belong debating issues on TV. There are alot of places timid/shy people dont belong. Poker dealer is one of them. And if the poker room hires a bunch of timid/shy people////well then...GOODBYE POKER ROOM

I have known at least 2 dealers, that all they had to do was give you that look ! And they were dealers the players all preferred to deal.

larry I agree with you 100% on what is supposed to happen but the reality is between shy dealers, rookie dealers and english challenged dealers the kids run the playground a lot of the time.

"There are alot of places timid/shy people dont belong. Poker dealer is one of them. And if the poker room hires a bunch of timid/shy people////well then...GOODBYE POKER ROOM "

There are no timid/shy people dealing poker in any room I have played in. There are dealers who think if you are big enough to play poker, you should be big enough to handle criticism all by yourself. You can always ask for a table change or tell someone why you are leaving the poker room.

Larry, you seem to make this a black and white situation. If the dealer doesn't do what he is supposed to then you will leave.

In your opinion the dealer should always do his/her job by stamping out the heckling/badmouthing/cussing......

When you deal with personalities, especially dealers personalities things can go very wrong very quickly. Some dealers are very emotional when they come to work, just like many other people are when they go to work but dealers more often than not get placed in very severe conditions such as having to make a call about a heckling player when all they want to do is crawl out of the roomw ithout being seen......

I agree that all dealers should always follow all procedures and rules but the simple fact is that this is not always the case. If it were and it could be guaranteed, then I would be without a job :)

Next time when you feel uncomfortable either go to another table or call the floor. You are well within your rights to do so and hopefully they will give you an effective resolution to the issue at hand.

Quote: ontariodealer

this is an extremely accurate portrayal of what goes on.

ONTARIO..I respect your opinion because u have been on the battle lines.

Being an accurate "portrayal".....does that mean its correct. I mean is it ok to have a quiet poker dealer who doesnt control the table...and let them hide behind the fact that they are "quiet".

or is having a quiet uninvolved poker dealer a poor hire....and they are neglecting their duties by not getting invovled....andletting the player initiate the complaining to the floor.

If I had a quiet dealer....and I got up and walked to the floor person and complained that behavior was going on at the table and the dealer has said nothing....could he the floor person come over and address it......would the floor person tell me....that the dealer is a quiet person and he didnt expect him/her to say anything?
If instead of asking for help..i told the floor person that I cannot play here because the dealer wont attempt to control the bad behavior of a player....and wont be coming back....would the floor person smile and say..."well the dealer is a quiet person.....we cant expect much from him or her...but when the outgoing dealer joey starts his shift in a half hour..he will do better". We have different expectatons for our quiet dealers and out outgoing dealers.

oops ontario..you answered mt question while i typed above thanks

Quote: LarryS

ONTARIO..I respect your opinion because u have been on the battle lines.

Being an accurate "portrayal".....does that mean its correct. I mean is it ok to have a quiet poker dealer who doesnt control the table...and let them hide behind the fact that they are "quiet".

or is having a quiet uninvolved poker dealer a poor hire....and they are neglecting their duties by not getting invovled....andletting the player initiate the complaining to the floor.

If I had a quiet dealer....and I got up and walked to the floor person and complained that behavior was going on at the table and the dealer has said nothing....could he the floor person come over and address it......would the floor person tell me....that the dealer is a quiet person and he didnt expect him/her to say anything?
If instead of asking for help..i told the floor person that I cannot play here because the dealer wont attempt to control the bad behavior of a player....and wont be coming back....would the floor person smile and say..."well the dealer is a quiet person.....we cant expect much from him or her...but when the outgoing dealer joey starts his shift in a half hour..he will do better". We have different expectatons for our quiet dealers and out outgoing dealers.

Larry, so let me get this straight.....We should always hire the correct people for the job, all the time, no matter what?

Things are not so easy when you have an HR team doing the hiring and you need to cut corners because of budgetary constraints.

Sometimes leaving after being upset by something is also an option?

larryi 'll give you one example on how bad things have come......our casino gets rid of a whole bunch of floors who were full time employees with benefits and replaces them with part time dual rates (dealer/floor)

our craps table gets so busy one day this dual rate who was dealing cannot keep up so they bump her off the table for an experienced dealer// ten minutes later she is back with the suit on and is sitting box.

Quote: ontariodealer

larryi 'll give you one example on how bad things have come......our casino gets rid of a whole bunch of floors who were full time employees with benefits and replaces them with part time dual rates (dealer/floor)

our craps table gets so busy one day this dual rate who was dealing cannot keep up so they bump her off the table for an experienced dealer// ten minutes later she is back with the suit on and is sitting box.

Larry Obviously if its getting out of hand like you explained, the dealer should speak up and give a warning at the least, if it continues, since they have a game to rake... umm.... i mean run, they simply need to yell,"FLOOR", It should not be that hard. You can always try to defuse the situation and ask them a shocking question like, who this Floyd Mayweather guy is ;) Or quietly leave for the bathroom and talk to the floor and explain, his dealer cant control the game and your uncomfortable.

Quote: ontariodealer

larryi 'll give you one example on how bad things have come......our casino gets rid of a whole bunch of floors who were full time employees with benefits and replaces them with part time dual rates (dealer/floor)

our craps table gets so busy one day this dual rate who was dealing cannot keep up so they bump her off the table for an experienced dealer// ten minutes later she is back with the suit on and is sitting box.

I've seen that many a day in my life. I have experienced it a few times too......but in reverse.....I'm sitting box and am called in to deal a game because the action is too big for a 15 year dealer to handle......

Didn't go well for him after that night I can assure you.

IMO a good poker dealer knows how to "control the table" but in a passive way. They need to let the table-talk stay at a level where the players keep their enjoyment but when things get out of hand they should be able to say, "take it easy guys" in a stern enough way that most players will "understand" that they might have made an over-the-line comment and have just gently been slapped back into line, just as you lightly slap a puppy during training not to hurt it but send a message that you do not want that behavior.

The hard part of training dealers for this is our PC world. Any poker room I have been in is 90% or so male players. Men treat each other different than women. What a female dealer may feel is an "attack" a male dealer may see as boys being boys. It takes a floorman with really good people skills to know when and how to diffuse the situation if the dealer's "slap the puppy at the table" as described above does not work. And the modern MBA-analytic manager will not understand it at all. Back in the days of Don Draper all of it could be explained in about a minute to dealer and floorman alike. We have lost our commonsense people skills in the USA.

Quote: ontariodealer

larry I agree with you 100% on what is supposed to happen but the reality is between shy dealers, rookie dealers and english challenged dealers the kids run the playground a lot of the time.

but then the question remains...in a job that requires firmness at times, and policing ability at times, and communication skills, and personality, ....why are shy timid people, some with poor communication skills/english speaking skills......hired in the first place. Maybe they can be hired as book keepers. or cage people.

there is an old saying...if you give the keys to you car to a 15 year old with Downs syndrome and tell him to drive through the Lincoln Tunnel...and he gets in an accident...who do you blame...the kid? or the person who gave him the keys.

Someone is hiring these people....and giving them the keys to the poker table.

Quote: LarryS

but then the question remains...in a job that requires firmness at times, and policing ability at times, and communication skills, and personality, ....why are shy timid people, some with poor communication skills/english speaking skills......hired in the first place.

They are the only ones that can pass the drug test. There were 3,000 initial applications last year to staff the Horseshoe Cincy for the grand opening. I was told nearly half failed the drug test.

A dealer told me that……so?

Quote: treetopbuddy

They are the only ones that can pass the drug test. There were 3,000 initial applications last year to staff the Horseshoe Cincy for the grand opening. I was told nearly half failed the drug test.

A dealer told me that……so?

Welcome to today's America. Half of life does seem to be showing up clean, on time, and sober.

My opinion is the rule is ridiculous and is being reserved for extreme cases. The dealer wants to just deal and not slow down the action for things which would be over by the time anyone was called.

<<<IMO a good poker dealer knows how to "control the table" but in a passive way. ...>>>

sometimes you need more than passivity. Example of why I left a poker room for good.

Seat#2 (30 years old),,,,,,,loses a big pot on the river to seat number 5(50 years old).(I am in seat number 6 out of the hand)

#2 says to the person next to him..."this motherfker, doesnt know how to fold" Theperson next to him says something to calm the guy down like "well thats poker"
"2 replies...."it would be nice if this mother fker knew HOW to play poker".

the next hand comes, and the girlfiend of #2 shows up and asks how things are going.....#2 answers "if it wasnt for this motherfker I would be ahead". And then he goes thru the entire hand telling her the actions of the man to my right...describing him as a motherfker each time...."on the flop this motherfkr did this" on the turn this motherfkr did that....3 more references using that word once the girlfriend arrived. At least 5 times that the dealer could have said something and put an end to it......or atleast tried to put an end to it.

Nothing is said by the dealer. I can hear the guy perfectly in seat #6. So the guy in seat #5 finally chimes in..."if I am a mother fker....its your mother I am fking"

well you can guess how the hothead took this...with his girlfriend watching. So #2 stands up and walks up to #5.........# 5 stands up....and within 30 seconds security was there and ushered them out.

When the dealer was asked what happened....he said that the man in #5 didnt like what the man in #2 was saying. Thats it. I chimed in that the man iun # 2 used the word motherfker many times.....but the floor didnt care after the dealers account. Both didnt return

meanwhile during the 30 second altercation I had to stand up because I was scared if they started fighting they would fall over on me.

this wasnt pleasant for the other 8 people at the table. And the resolution of letting it all play out until security was called was not acceptable to me. The idea of "let boys be boys" is not something I agree with at a civil poker game. The idea that there is security that can intervene very quickly when things get out of hand is no consolation to me.

really? is this the price of having a "shy " dealer?? and poor hiring practices

Quote: LarryS

<<<IMO a good poker dealer knows how to "control the table" but in a passive way. ...>>>



this wasnt pleasant for the other 8 people at the table. And the resolution of letting it all play out until security was called was not acceptable to me. The idea of "let boys be boys" is not something I agree with at a civil poker game. The idea that there is security that can intervene very quickly when things get out of hand is no consolation to me.

This would clearly be over the line from "let boys be boys." How would I have handled it?

First, with the first mf-er I would have made a polite but firm comment to get the guy to calm down. Something like, "sir, I know you are upset but please control yourself." At this point if he stayed angry the dealer should set the cards on the felt and call for the floor, loudly. The dealer should tell the floor he has an upset player, then the floor takes over.

Now back to the actual situation. When player 5 "returned fire" the floor was a little stuck. I would have guaged the response of the table and ejected player 2 for 48 hours and a warning the next ejection would be his last. I would then have taken player 5 aside and half asked the story and asked him to take a 15 minute break, waiving his blinds. Just because you cannot let even player 5 act like that.

FWIW if I was player 5 I would have just kept a sly grin and kept the guy on tilt until I cleaned him out.

Quote:

really? is this the price of having a "shy " dealer?? and poor hiring practices

I blame it more to poor ongoing training. The casino is probably so cheap they will not give even an hour a week of how to handle this kind of thing. When I was in management I tried to teach employees how to handle things that came up. Dealers should role-play this stuff, an hour a week.

Other suggestion is try to hire dealers over 35 years old because by then you have seen so much more bad behavior and know how to handle it.

AZD...reasonable 'take" on the matter.

However our world is changing. When I was a kid, I would go to the movies and there were "ushers" who would shine a flashlight on you if you were talking in order to maintain order and enjoyment for the masses. Now-a-days, people are on cell phines talking, texting, talking out loud, carrying crying babies......and if any kid was there shining a light on these people....there would be violence in some cases. People are just more rude to others in this world.

I think this type of behavior is escalating at poker tables. People just dont know limits. All the more reason to need a strong dealer.

Some players, especially women are intimidated by this activity. I know casinos by me encourage women to play....just to get more bodies interested. They even have womens only tournaments. And I get obscenitie sat times hurled at me for a move i make or dont make.....and if its a one time explosion...no big deal. But once the one time surge of adrenalin is over.....I dont expect it to continue. And if it does...I expect the dealer to intervene.

Personaly I dont think its an unreasonable expectation. And I dont want to hear about excuses that people arent trained, or they cant speak english, or they are shy.
It is (in my opinion) the responsibility of the poker room management to provide a reasonable/safe/comfortable environment for its patrons. And if they cant...then they will lose my business...and maybe business of others.

At an indian casino and at one casino in reno...I saw a new age poker table. The way it worked I think is that you buy a cash card, and slip it into the computer at your spot in the table. And that is your "buy in". Then each player sits at their spot at the table and cards are dealt electronically.. No physical dealer. No physical cards
No tipping occurs. No "mis deals".
Hmmmmm.....If live dealers are only expected to be robots and just deal the cards....there is a cheaper alternative already out there.

Quote: LarryS

I know casinos by me encourage women to play....just to get more bodies interested. They even have womens only tournaments.

More women equates to more men……guys are always looking for…... strange……casinos know this and try working that angle whenever possible.

Quote: treetopbuddy

More women equates to more men……guys are always looking for…... strange……casinos know this and try working that angle whenever possible.

even more reason to have strong dealers in this day and age. With just one woman at the table...the dynamic of coming to the defense of the helpless woman is now in play. If the dealer lets things go...2 men can start fighting over the disrespect given to a woman....the knight in shining armour syndrome.

larry, no where in this day and age do I see a casino who is looking for and hiring strong dealers. Pass a bj test, try to have a personality, work cheap and don't vote union and you're in.

larry, no where in this day and age do I see a casino who is looking for and hiring strong dealers. Pass a bj test, try to have a personality, work cheap and don't vote union and you're in.

Larry, here is my last word on the matter, kinda take it or leave it situation now.

I understand your plight and I also sympathise with the fact that you have seen some unruly happenings around a game where you enjoyed playing in the past.

The simple fact is this.....dealers are too afraid of saying something as they don't want to bring the heat back on themselves, land up in HR or worse, getting fired because a joker complained about their actions.
To make matters worse, a lot of these dealers are part timers or on call staff. They will not be fired, they will simply be cut back on getting shifts. This will affect their paychecks and ultimately their livelihoods.

Combine that with the spinless dealers who only come to work to swipe the clock as well as with dealers who are shy and you can easily see how not saying something will more than likely extend their longevity in the position they are in.

I wish life was always as cut and dry as to say.....Because you have a procedure, you have to follow it. This is simply not the case anymore. You are working with a much more diverse workforce who perhaps don't have an incredibly strong grasp of the English langauge or perhaps firls who are shy or guys who are weak....A plethora of reasons could be brought forward to explain why the dealers didn't take action.

I don't have a better answer for you except to apologize on behalf of the casino employees who failed you. After all, you as the guest should be treated in such a way that you will want to come back and not in a way that makes you leave our casino.......unfortunately, just like you, we all play the cards we are dealt. We don't hire, for the most part we simply manage.

It's hard.............

Quote: LarryS

AZD...reasonable 'take" on the matter.

However our world is changing. When I was a kid, I would go to the movies and there were "ushers" who would shine a flashlight on you if you were talking in order to maintain order and enjoyment for the masses. Now-a-days, people are on cell phines talking, texting, talking out loud, carrying crying babies......and if any kid was there shining a light on these people....there would be violence in some cases. People are just more rude to others in this world.

This is very true and in more places than the poker table. I partly blame the feminization of society that has been going on since the early 1970s. What it means to act "manly" has been lost. In your earlier case the player who kept calling the guy a "mfer" didn't start that behavior overnight. In the old days by age 30 he would have been signaled at tables that "hey, that kind of behavior is not accepted here, pal." Don't get me started how a manly guy would not even use said language in front of much less talking to his girlfriend. FWIW, years ago his gf would have told him not to talk that way early in the relationship. Today it does not matter, in fact a woman once got offended because I said I watched my language around women.

I understand the "reality" of the situation now regarding the workforce of poker dealers. But although I understand the "reality" I dont accept it as an excuse.


Its like me complaining to the manager of a store that the lines are too long at checkout, and the cashiers are not that competant,....and the manager tells me.."please understand we hire people not fully competant to do the job, they are slow, dont speak english well, and cant think quickly on their feet and we dont give proper training..so please dont blame them".

Ok....I am not blaming the dealers. Like I said...someone hired them and handed them the keys to the table.

even in a bad economy where there seems to be alot of people looking for jobs....are the casinos getting a limited amout of applicants and have to take what they can get?

When a faceless corporation wins money from you at all the other table games its one thing. But when an individual sitting across the table from you wins alot of your money....its a recipe for personal attacks...especially when you mix in alcohol.

I actually am interested in this topic because I run into conflict just by being in one financial class going up against someone in a lower financial class. For example in 1-2 no limit. A guy puts in 20 dollars BEFORE the river card.....to try to get me to fold. To him 20 dollars is alot.To him, if he didnt have a made hand...he would fold for 20 dollars. To me its worth to gamble with the 20 dollars..so I call. So I win with Ace high or make my flush, or second pair. If this happens a few times...the frustration builds..and I am not going to teach the guy that he needs to bet bigger to get me out. To me 20 diollars is not a big deal.I am willing to gamble with it.

Once the language starts and the complaining starts, its nice if the dealer puts an end to it early. I can take care of myself if it really gets out of hand by verbaklly fighting back without breaking any rules...and if needed calling the floor. But in my opinion it should never get that far.
And in my opinion the poker room will be limited to males and a handful of old time hard as nails females who have lived life and arent phased by this behavior.

And not all males...timid males who want to try poker one time because they saw it on tv(the best people i like to play against0.....with a bad experience wont b back
they dont get this kind of heat at roullette or even at BJ even if they split 10's against a 10.

In reno where I play in non tournament games...it seems the older crowd prevails...and I fit right in. And if there is a "incident" its usually created by a young male.