Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
January 13th, 2014 at 11:39:25 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

[Edit] After the flop the JJ is about 3-1 which is where the money got in.



I agree. This scenario had 2 callers, both with AK.

2 callers of a pre-flop raise. Then after missing the flop, both go all in against the pre-flop raiser ?

Please tell me you immediately re-bought into that table.

But first, I hope you told them how you tried to move them off AK, and congratulated them on their win.

Hard to do with a straight face, but it can be done. LOL
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
UTHfan
UTHfan
Joined: Mar 10, 2013
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 155
January 13th, 2014 at 12:06:45 PM permalink
I know, people still like sharing beats.
hook3670
hook3670
Joined: May 17, 2011
  • Threads: 38
  • Posts: 436
January 13th, 2014 at 12:07:48 PM permalink
I know it part of the game, but I can't believe 2 people went all in with just an AK unsuited and no hope for flush or straight. On another hand with these relatively small blinds, how do you play a great opening hand like AA. If you go all in most likely everyone will fold and I will win like $1, which has happened. if I gently enter the wagering to try and build the pot up, I risk the flop seer catching a blind lucky good hand, which happened to me, and killing me.
hook3670
hook3670
Joined: May 17, 2011
  • Threads: 38
  • Posts: 436
January 13th, 2014 at 12:07:49 PM permalink
I know it part of the game, but I can't believe 2 people went all in with just an AK unsuited and no hope for flush or straight. On another hand with these relatively small blinds, how do you play a great opening hand like AA. If you go all in most likely everyone will fold and I will win like $1, which has happened. if I gently enter the wagering to try and build the pot up, I risk the flop seer catching a blind lucky good hand, which happened to me, and killing me.
vendman1
vendman1
Joined: Mar 12, 2012
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 1034
January 13th, 2014 at 12:08:49 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

Thanks. I am fairly new to tournament or cash game poker. I don't want it to be an expensive tutorial, however I want to learn to play as well as possible. The problem with really low limit games is everyone just stays to see the flop and its just who ends up with better cards like a house banked game.



This is actually the root of the problem in your case. You can almost throw out advanced poker analysis in a low limit game. People care less about the money and more about "having fun". Which makes their play unpredictable.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1263
January 13th, 2014 at 12:34:15 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

I know it part of the game, but I can't believe 2 people went all in with just an AK unsuited and no hope for flush or straight. On another hand with these relatively small blinds, how do you play a great opening hand like AA. If you go all in most likely everyone will fold and I will win like $1, which has happened. if I gently enter the wagering to try and build the pot up, I risk the flop seer catching a blind lucky good hand, which happened to me, and killing me.



I agree with previous post, at low limits, too many people stay in on marginal hands (and that's being generous). You need to observe how the other players have reacted on previous hands with pre-flop raises (in a $0.50/$1.00 NL game) to $5, $10, $15, etc. At some tables, a $5 pre-flop raise might get everybody to fold, at other tables some players see $20 as an introduction to get involved. With AA, you want to minimize the number of players going to the flop with you. I really don't want to go up against more than one other player, so I have to figure out what that the amount is that will accomplish that. This is one of several reasons why it's so important to watch the action closely even when you aren't involved in the hand.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1263
January 13th, 2014 at 12:39:30 PM permalink
Quote: paisiello

Quote: MidwestAP

[Edit] After the flop the JJ is about 3-1 which is where the money got in.

Actually better than 3:1. Closer to 6:1 because there are only 4 cards left in the deck that will kill him.



Agreed, I was still considering the situation that if the first player had shown AK when he when he went all in, that the JJ was an easy call knowing the OP was a 3-1 favorite against one player with AK. It was made even better when the player behind also called off his chips with the same hand.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 4299
January 13th, 2014 at 1:15:24 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Now, what the hell is a "meatspace tournament", UTHfan? That's a new bit of lingo to me. lol...


"meatspace" is the opposite of cyberspace, i.e. the internet. So in this case, "meatspace tournament" just means a regular old in-person tournament in a card room or casino.

I think it comes mostly from cyberpunk fiction.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
paisiello
paisiello
Joined: Oct 30, 2011
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 546
January 14th, 2014 at 11:50:43 AM permalink
Quote: socks

Someone suggested that 10:1 is sufficient odds to set mine, but if you're raising AK/AQs here and occasionally non- premium hands, and not always c-betting, it makes it really tricky to get odds at 10-1.

That's true. The question becomes then how to you account for implied odds? Do you assume barring any indication otherwise that your opponent will commit 100% of his stack maybe 50% of the time? So then you need something more like 20:1 implied odds?

I have been told by very experienced players that you should never call a bet with implied odds unless you are 100% sure that you will have the nuts if you hit your outs AND that you are 100% sure your opponent will call you when you do. But I am not sure how you can be so sure.
socks
socks
Joined: Jul 13, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 364
January 14th, 2014 at 4:36:14 PM permalink
Quote: paisiello

...So then you need something more like 20:1 implied odds?

I have been told by very experienced players that you should never call a bet with implied odds unless you are 100% sure that you will have the nuts if you hit your outs AND that you are 100% sure your opponent will call you when you do. But I am not sure how you can be so sure.



You can't be sure. You just want to have reason to believe that the times you're right will make up for the misses. iirc, I tended towards 15:1. In the best situations, 10-1 might be enough, but it's stretching it. From the other side, I tried to sure my betting frequencies made it hard for someone to get the best of me if they were aiming for 10-1, therefore I didn't worry about paying off at that rate postflop. To be fair, NL wasn't my best game, but I was a small winner at the 2/5 level several years ago and have a fair amount of balancing strategy in other formats as well.

edit: should say "2/5 live" since I rarely played NL online. I also played 5/10 some, though not enough to be confident in a sample.

  • Jump to: