hook3670
hook3670
Joined: May 17, 2011
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January 13th, 2014 at 8:53:11 AM permalink
I was playing online poker. I drew a pair of Jacks. I raised pre flop and was called by two others. The flop comes and it is 2, 8, 7 unsuited. Well one guy goes all in then I called and the third guy called. Well they both had AK unsuited. I thought not bad. Sure enough a King on the turn and then nothing and I get bounced and lose like $114. Did I play this correctly?
paisiello
paisiello
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:00:41 AM permalink
How much did you raise pre-flop?
vendman1
vendman1
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:06:41 AM permalink
Depends on a lot of things...was this a tourney or a cash game?..If a tourney, where were the blinds in relation to your stack. If you were short stacked then yeah going all in is a reasonable move there....If not; probably a tad impatient.

There are half a dozen other questions I'd have too if you want a serious answer. For example:
What were the stakes and buy-ins?...How long were you and the other players in the game?...How much did you raise pre-flop? What was your position in the hand relative to the button and other players?. Where on-line were you playing? any chance you were cheated? I could go on but you get the idea hopefully.
hook3670
hook3670
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:11:24 AM permalink
Ok it was a cash game I bought in for a $100. Most, if not all, stacks were between $50 and $150. It was $.50 and $1 blinds with no limit. I raised $10 pre flop. I have an account at 5dimes and I have been playing sports with them for almost three years with no problems.
vendman1
vendman1
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:20:58 AM permalink
Ok assuming the game is on the up and up. I think going all in was probably an over aggressive play. My thinking being that since one of your opponents went all in ahead of you post flop with rags on the board. I put him on a high pair, or a low pair that just turned into a set. Either way an all in move with a pair of hooks is risky. As you found out. Don't get me wrong it's not an awful play....but it's a pretty aggressive one. Just one man's opinion. I'm assuming a full table too.
Buzzard
Buzzard
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:23:09 AM permalink
Doesn't matter what they held. 2 all ins with that flops ! Did you think they were both bluffing after calling your pre-flop raise? DUH
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
UTHfan
UTHfan
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:33:04 AM permalink
This same thing happened to me in a meatspace tournament, the difference being:
1. as small blind, a few players call before I make a moderate raise 2x bb.
2. Big Blind then raises to what would be about 1/3 of my total stack. I am a little below avg stack for this stage in tournament having lost several hands in weird ways.
3. table folds around to me.
4. At this time, I decide that he's got no pair and maybe just a high kicker ace and go all in since I feel committed, ready to win coin toss.
5. He calls. Sure enough, AK. So. it's a coin flip with my fish hooks.
6. Flop through turn are blanks. King on the river.
7. I played the preflop coin flip figuring my show of strength could make him fold non-pair...but no, people love their AK.

What I should have done:
A. Folded because his show of strength was greater than what I had via gap principle. His raise could have easily been KK level strength.
B. I don't always go all in but was frustrated, normally I would have folded or, more sometimes call to see moderately expensive flop, and raise big on flop or turn when I had top pair before he sucked out. The point being, he would have been more likely to fold on turn when he did not hit hand and a raise on my part made his pot odds to crappy to go on for one of his 6 outs.

Did you play it correctly? For all you knew at that point, your opponent hit set. You should have folded.
Of course, their play was crappy, going all in with mere AK with only 2 cards to go but you didn't have that information. You were not in a tournament, so there was no reason to even sweat it, the blinds aren't going up.
You did not go all in pre-flop so you were not committed to the pot aside from ego.

However, you were playing low stakes internet poker in which people act crazier. For all you knew, some guy called your raise with 78 and hit two pair (or if he had pocket 8's). Anyway, tons of things to consider, you made $114 gamble and the other guy sucked out.
Finally, your outs were
JJ, and runner runner 9-10. So, say about 10 outs, post flop that gives you 40% chance of improving hand. Other guy had only 6 outs for about 24% chance.
anonimuss
anonimuss
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:41:42 AM permalink
No background on how you or both other players had been playing until then? You were first to act pre flop? What position were you in, what position were each of the other players in?
paisiello
paisiello
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January 13th, 2014 at 9:42:49 AM permalink
Only raising $10 gave each of your opponents implied pot odds of 10:1 which is enough for a set. So a call may not have been the correct move here technically. But on the other hand if their image was very loose and aggressive and they had made similar moves before then it could have been a good call.

In retrospect of course they only had about a 16% chance of beating you so it was a bad move on both of their parts and you should have tripled up.
paisiello
paisiello
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January 13th, 2014 at 10:06:51 AM permalink
Quote: UTHfan

This same thing happened to me in a meatspace tournament...

Your scenario is probably not relevant here other than you happened to have the same cards.

Quote: UTHfan

Finally, your outs were
JJ, and runner runner 9-10. So, say about 10 outs, post flop that gives you 40% chance of improving hand. Other guy had only 6 outs for about 24% chance.


You misread the OP. The total number of outs for both of the opponents are 4 (A,A,K,K) so with two cards to come that gives them about a 16% chance to win.

The total number of outs for the OP is irrelevant since he was ahead already. If his opponents actually had something like a set or two pair then his outs are only two (J,J) which gives him about an 8% chance of improving. Runner, runner for a straight might add another 1.5% at most to the probability of improving his hand.

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