Spanish 21

I was just wondering does anyone know why Spanish 21 is more popular in the East than the West(Vegas and Tahoe). As the BJ rules get crappier, i have turned to Spanish 21 and shockingly, in Atlantic City, Harrah's has favorable rules for the game.

I was in Primm this weekend, and 2 of the 3 casinos, I did not go to Whiskey Pete's, also had Spanish 21. Dealer hits on a soft 17.

The ones at Harrah's AC dealer stays soft 21 and it has all of the over favorable bells and whistles. To me as the BJ games get worse odds, this is not a bad alternative.

Quote: hook3670

I was just wondering does anyone know why Spanish 21 is more popular in the East than the West(Vegas and Tahoe). As the BJ rules get crappier, i have turned to Spanish 21 and shockingly, in Atlantic City, Harrah's has favorable rules for the game.

Spanish 21 is kind of a "market" game; it either is in every casino in a given market, or it's presence is minimal. For example, PA is influenced by Atlantic City, so most of the Eastern PA casinos offer the game. The Western PA area though is more influenced by the WV casinos, so Spanish 21 is not found in casinos like Rivers, The Meadows or Presque Isle. Western IA has Spanish as an important mix game, while you won't find a single table in the Eastern IA casinos. Kansas City used to have one table in Argosy, but I think they took it out (it rarely got play, except at peak times). St Louis suffered the same fate. The game doesn't exist in Illinois, but is in nearly every casino in IN.

I don't have a great explanation for it. Sometimes its a jurisdiction thing (Illinois). Some may not want to pay for the licensing. Usually where there are more informed gamblers (if there is such a thing), you'll find the game. In Vegas, about the only place offering it these days is Cosmopolitan, who has 2 or 3 tables spread out.

Quote: hook3670

I was just wondering does anyone know why Spanish 21 is more popular in the East than the West(Vegas and Tahoe). As the BJ rules get crappier, i have turned to Spanish 21 and shockingly, in Atlantic City, Harrah's has favorable rules for the game.

It's more popular than the SOUTHwest, perhaps, but if you don't mind playing in the smaller casinos in Washington State, you will find Spanish 21 absolutely everywhere; last time I was there, the entire Washington Gold chain had good rules (6D H17 with redouble) and frankly, the comps are a lot better for table game players. Of course, you'll be gambling in a sports bar or a lodge without slot machines. Whether this is an irritant or heaven on earth, I leave to your discretion.

Plus, dealers keep their own tips. I don't have to tell you all how big a difference that makes on service.

I've ranted to anyone who will listen about this and I'll keep doing it; if you like table games, find the occasional carny game fun and don't memorizing a complex strategy for Ultimate Texas Hold'em, you will gamble your brains out there.

Only pain is getting there. I generally go through Vegas cheap and just stay long enough to catch some $60 regional jobber. Allegiant goes to the smaller cities (Tri-Cities, Spokane) and a couple others go to the Seattle-Tacoma area.

Okay, rant over :P

I think a lot of people have heard of the game and have heard that it is 'better' than blackjack,
But they are intimidated by memorizing the basic strategy for the game.
Of course, many players do not have any idea of the basic strategy and just play because of the additional payouts.
I think it's lack of prevalence in Nevada is more a factor of the greed for higher profits.
The trend in Vegas is toward 6:5 BJ, clearly going in the opposite direction of the lower edge found in Spanish.
There is also the licensing fee.
And of course the fact that Spanish is more vulnerable to counting...

Quote: Tiltpoul

Kansas City used to have one table in Argosy, but I think they took it out (it rarely got play, except at peak times).

Actually, Spanish 21 is alive and well at the K.C. Argosy. Just played on that table a week ago and had a decent bit of good fortune, courtesy of a helpful dealer who helped on several strategy plays... I had not played the game for over a year. It's a fun deviation and I tend to believe it offers the savvy player decent opportunities.

Quote: midwestgb

Actually, Spanish 21 is alive and well at the K.C. Argosy. Just played on that table a week ago and had a decent bit of good fortune, courtesy of a helpful dealer who helped on several strategy plays... I had not played the game for over a year. It's a fun deviation and I tend to believe it offers the savvy player decent opportunities.

I'm glad to hear that. I went down to Kansas City in August and I didn't remember seeing it there, but I was there at about 3am and was quite tired. I instead played craps. I know that Spanish was shut down at that time, but I thought some of the table moves eliminated that game from the floor mix. Perhaps with Hollywood open now it's easier to have the game on the floor.

Quote: WongBo

I think a lot of people have heard of the game and have heard that it is 'better' than blackjack,
But they are intimidated by memorizing the basic strategy for the game.

I couldn't disagree more on this point. I have sat at many a table, with my basic strategy card appropriate for the rules in hand, and RARELY get players who want to use it. After busting a 12 against a dealer 6 ONE time, they will shy away from ever hitting again, despite the fact that you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hit 12 on the game.

I think there are players who see the sign for Spanish 21 and automatically think if they are not fluent in Spanish they will be uncomfortable. This is a game where a name change could actually help the game, IMO.

Quote: WongBo

Of course, many players do not have any idea of the basic strategy and just play because of the additional payouts.

There is a lot more truth in this statement. Although my experience is about 30-40% of players play the game because it's something different. They bring $20 to a $5 table and hope to turn it into $100. And it's also the only BJ game without side bets where that can happen relatively easily.

Quote: WongBo

I think it's lack of prevalence in Nevada is more a factor of the greed for higher profits. The trend in Vegas is toward 6:5 BJ, clearly going in the opposite direction of the lower edge found in Spanish. There is also the licensing fee.

All three reasons are good ones as to why it's not prevalent in Vegas. Again, Cosmopolitan (and Venetian/Palazzo; I JUST remembered) are the only casinos that offer Spanish. I think there's a lot to be said that the more "independent" big casinos are offering it on the strip. Those casinos also have limited 6:5 tables, though Cosmopolitan does have a few more than Velazzo. But the licensing fee is probably the number one reason. Casinos don't want a lower hold game where they have to pay to offer it.

Quote: WongBo

And of course the fact that Spanish is more vulnerable to counting...

I want to say that's ridiculous, but given Vegas casinos propensity to make rules much worse, there is possibly a truth to that. The problem with counting Spanish is the amount of time a deck can be positive is considerably less. Still, some of these sweat the money joints would be too afraid of counters hitting the game. I still think the licensing fee would be the reason at the smaller places, but I wouldn't be surprised about counting too.

A lot of S21's success can be attributed to the proprietary Match the Dealer side bet, which as far as I know is ONLY on S21 games (i.e., Masque hasn't licensed it on its own). People play that bet like crazy. Pretty good odds and hit rate for a side bet. I think around 3% house edge.

Quote: teddys

A lot of S21's success can be attributed to the proprietary Match the Dealer side bet, which as far as I know is ONLY on S21 games (i.e., Masque hasn't licensed it on its own). People play that bet like crazy. Pretty good odds and hit rate for a side bet. I think around 3% house edge.

I played somewhere that offered Match The Dealer on a regular BJ game, but for the life of me, I can't remember where it was. I thought it was kind of funny, since I thought it was only on Spanish. It had different odds too....