The Lottery Sucks!
This was a massive project that I did for WizardofOdds that has just gone up if anyone wants to take a look:
https://wizardofodds.com/online-gambling/articles/the-lottery-sucks
How bad are traditional forms of lottery (Instant tickets and Drawing games) in terms of return to player? How much do the residents of your state, on average, lose to traditional lottery in a year?
These and other questions will be answered on the WizardofOdds page, "The Lottery Sucks," in which I analyzed the game returns and losses per resident in every state that has a lottery.
By the way, do you know five states do not have a lottery? Try to write down which five you think they are before reading the page and see how many you get right!
Anyway, this took forever because I researched the Annual Lottery Report for each individual state in order to determine the returns on traditional lottery games and indexed those to determine what the loss, per resident (includes children) is to traditional forms of lottery.
For Delaware, in the table on the bottom of the page, I included the Delaware Sports Lottery and also Lottery that includes revenues derived from casinos, separately, just to give people a general idea what the numbers look like for states that have those going through the lottery department. West Virginia, for example, would have one of the greatest losses per resident in the entire country if these things were included, but are below average on loss/resident for traditional lottery revenues because there are more popular (and better returning) legal ways to gamble in the state.
Anyway, feel free to have a look and see how the states compare! Please leave any comments in this thread.
NOTE: I indexed my findings to average loss per resident rather than using lottery revenue per resident because, in my opinion, listing the actual dollar amount loss is more impactful for demonstrating how terrible the lotteries are.
WORST LOTTERY GAMES: Powerball, Mega Millions
BEST RETURN % LOTTERY GAMES: $20+ Instant Tickets (Horrible Expected Loss $$$ Amount, Though)
CHEAPEST GAMES BY EXPECTED LOSS (PER PLAY): $1 Instant Tickets, $1 Keno (Sometimes, and if available), $1 Pull Tabs (If Available)
Judging from the E-Mail chain, it seems like half of the people who work for the sites contributed to this one! I have almost zero idea how to do anything on the publishing end, except for the absolute most basic editing, so big props to everyone for all the work on making this page look amazing!
Quote: ThatDonGuyI was a little surprised to see California's RTP for drawing tickets was greater than 50%. I am under the impression that all drawing games in California had pari-mutuel payouts with a 50% takeout, including the daily 3-digit and 4-digit ones. (Yes, this includes Powerball and MegaMillions; except for the amount from each ticket contributed to the jackpot pool, bets in California are kept separate from the other states and payouts on non-jackpot tickets in California are pari-mutuel within that state.)
From the California Annual Lottery Report (2019):
https://static.www.calottery.com/-/media/Project/calottery/PWS/PDFs/Financial-Reports-etc/U_103295B-1A_CaliforniaStateLotteryFundStateofCalifornia_CAFR-Final-7_20-Final--v3.pdf?rev=25d733402b604ef09e1212aadf32f99b&hash=A6B9C860D20EF0CBFA7F9B89146BBCD1
Quote:On April 8, 2010, the Legislature amended the Lottery Act with Assembly Bill (AB) 142. AB 142 requires the Lottery
to return at least 87 percent of revenues to the public in the form of prizes and contributions to education, and
established a cap of 13 percent of revenues as the amount the Lottery may spend on operating expenses. Prior to
AB 142, the Lottery was required to return, as nearly as practical, 50 percent of revenues to the public in the form
of prizes; at least 34 percent to public education; and allocate no more than 16 percent to administrative costs. As
a result of the revenue distribution changes from AB 142, the Lottery expects to continue to deliver increases in sales
and revenues to the public in the form of both prizes and contributions to education.
It would appear that what you said is correct as of anytime prior to April 8th, 2010, during which time 50%, or as near as practical was to be returned in the form of prizes. It is worth noting that many lottery Drawing type games return something close to that, by design, so I imagine being under 51% on Drawing Games (as they were in 2019) would probably be fine.
It appears 142A.B. changed the requirement to 87% was to contribute to both education and prizes, combined, which would seem to open the door for more than 50% to be returned in the form of prizes. Prior to the bill, as shown in the quote, at least 34% had to go to education and only 50% (or as close as possible) to prizes.
We might, for comparison, look at the 2007-2008 Fiscal Year for the California Lottery:
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/30507639/california-lottery-report-to-the-public-2008
And, we will see that the overall return to player of all ticket types was only 53.1%, with a little over 34% of all revenues going to education.
The result is that prizes can be a little better under California law, in terms of return-to-player, but it's possible for a lesser percentage to be going to education due to the fact that the percentage is now calculated as (Prizes + Education) >/= 87%...rather than education having to be some fixed minimum percentage by itself.
. I read some, but not all, of your article. Forgive me if I missed it but..... isn’t the RTP actually MUCH worse than you calculate once real life tax consequences are considered. The overwhelming number of losing tickets sold do not qualify for a tax deduction, while at least the big jackpots are taxed at both the state and federal levels.Quote: Mission146Greetings!
This was a massive project that I did for WizardofOdds that has just gone up if anyone wants to take a look:
https://wizardofodds.com/online-gambling/articles/the-lottery-sucks
How bad are traditional forms of lottery (Instant tickets and Drawing games) in terms of return to player? How much do the residents of your state, on average, lose to traditional lottery in a year?
These and other questions will be answered on the WizardofOdds page, "The Lottery Sucks," in which I analyzed the game returns and losses per resident in every state that has a lottery.
By the way, do you know five states do not have a lottery? Try to write down which five you think they are before reading the page and see how many you get right!
Anyway, this took forever because I researched the Annual Lottery Report for each individual state in order to determine the returns on traditional lottery games and indexed those to determine what the loss, per resident (includes children) is to traditional forms of lottery.
For Delaware, in the table on the bottom of the page, I included the Delaware Sports Lottery and also Lottery that includes revenues derived from casinos, separately, just to give people a general idea what the numbers look like for states that have those going through the lottery department. West Virginia, for example, would have one of the greatest losses per resident in the entire country if these things were included, but are below average on loss/resident for traditional lottery revenues because there are more popular (and better returning) legal ways to gamble in the state.
Anyway, feel free to have a look and see how the states compare! Please leave any comments in this thread.
NOTE: I indexed my findings to average loss per resident rather than using lottery revenue per resident because, in my opinion, listing the actual dollar amount loss is more impactful for demonstrating how terrible the lotteries are.
WORST LOTTERY GAMES: Powerball, Mega Millions
BEST RETURN % LOTTERY GAMES: $20+ Instant Tickets (Horrible Expected Loss $$$ Amount, Though)
CHEAPEST GAMES BY EXPECTED LOSS (PER PLAY): $1 Instant Tickets, $1 Keno (Sometimes, and if available), $1 Pull Tabs (If Available)
Quote: SOOPOO. I read some, but not all, of your article. Forgive me if I missed it but..... isn’t the RTP actually MUCH worse than you calculate once real life tax consequences are considered. The overwhelming number of losing tickets sold do not qualify for a tax deduction, while at least the big jackpots are taxed at both the state and federal levels.
The effective RTP is, but that's also true of games in physical casinos and, in certain cases, state licensed and regulated commercial casinos...so it's really not appropriate (in my opinion) for House Edge purposes.
For example, is $1 denomination 9/6 Jacks or Better, "Worse," than $0.25 9/6 Jacks or Better because you might have to pay tax on the former (and would get a W2-G) if you hit a Royal?
So, your point is well-taken, but I'm only looking at it from the perspective of direct losses on buying the tickets.
Quote: SOOPOO. I read some, but not all, of your article. Forgive me if I missed it but..... isn’t the RTP actually MUCH worse than you calculate once real life tax consequences are considered. The overwhelming number of losing tickets sold do not qualify for a tax deduction, while at least the big jackpots are taxed at both the state and federal levels.
Not only this, but I feel like the other point sharp gamblers miss when lambasting the RTP of state lotteries is that the average amount wagered is a fraction of what would be expected at any casino game.
There is obviously a lot of overhead associated with creating, printing, and distributing paper games. Retailers also take a cut. While Casinos also run with big overhead, I doubt the lottery would be profitable offering 90% RTP games when the average “session” is likely less than $10 in wagers.
It baffles me when I see -EV BJ or VP trip reports where someone drops serious coin is met with great interest by the same posters who would probably call lottery players suckers.
When it comes to recreational gambling, there are many other things to consider than RTP. For example, it’s probably more likely for an average player to win life changing money via lottery than any casino game.
If a recreational player can scratch their gambling itch spending $20/week on lottery tickets, that is a better value than any amount of time spent in a casino.
Quote: Mission146The effective RTP is, but that's also true of games in physical casinos and, in certain cases, state licensed and regulated commercial casinos...so it's really not appropriate (in my opinion) for House Edge purposes.
For example, is $1 denomination 9/6 Jacks or Better, "Worse," than $0.25 9/6 Jacks or Better because you might have to pay tax on the former (and would get a W2-G) if you hit a Royal?
So, your point is well-taken, but I'm only looking at it from the perspective of direct losses on buying the tickets.
We will thus have to agree to disagree. To figure in money that goes to the feds and state in any way as a ‘return to player’ to me is disingenuous. And to me, the answer to your question about the 9/6 JOB is a resounding YES. The $1 game is worse, unless you have a way with other losses to not pay additional taxes. For those winning $,$$$,$$$ or more, taxes are unavoidable.
Quote: gamerfreakNot only this, but I feel like the other point sharp gamblers miss when lambasting the RTP of state lotteries is that the average amount wagered is a fraction of what would be expected at any casino game.
There is obviously a lot of overhead associated with creating, printing, and distributing paper games. Retailers also take a cut. While Casinos also run with big overhead, I doubt the lottery would be profitable offering 90% RTP games when the average “session” is likely less than $10 in wagers.
It baffles me when I see -EV BJ or VP trip reports where someone drops serious coin is met with great interest by the same posters who would probably call lottery players suckers.
When it comes to recreational gambling, there are many other things to consider than RTP. For example, it’s probably more likely for an average player to win life changing money via lottery than any casino game.
If a recreational player can scratch their gambling itch spending $20/week on lottery tickets, that is a better value than any amount of time spent in a casino.
I mostly agree with all of those points, though with a few caveats.
1.) I imagine that your first sentence is mostly true, but with a very high percentage of lottery revenues coming from a low percentage of players. I'll often see people buying $20, or more, in instant tickets either from the machine or the counter and just scratching off the barcodes and scanning them immediately.
2.) Your second paragraph is the only one that I disagree with a bit. Maybe not 90%, but they could certainly do better than ~50% on Drawing Tickets and ~70% (overall) on Instant Tickets and still be insanely profitable. You can look at $20 Instant Tickets that have an expected loss of more than $5---no way does it cost $5 for that one individual ticket to make its way to the retailer.
You can also see the lottery's preference for terrible return in effect for other games. I think I broke down an online lottery game (that wasn't technically a ticket, as it was through the PA Lottery website) and came up with an 81% return. There are online casinos in the state with over 98% VP games and they have to give the state a percentage of those revenues.
Another example is the televised Instant Keno type games---which usually have a return somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-80%.
All of this for less money to State Governments than just legalizing VLT's anywhere would result in.
3.) It depends on the BJ or VP games in question. If you look at 9/6 JoB with Optimal strategy, you lose not even fifty cents on $100 in action, by expectation. You lose that on a single Pick-Three ticket for $1.
4.) To the, "Life-Changing Money," if we're talking about only negative expectation games...maybe. It depends on how you define, "Life-Changing," and then that definition decides which one is more likely.
5.) I conditionally agree with your last sentence. It still depends on what they are playing and how much coin-in. $20 in lottery purchases can be an expected loss of up to a little over $10, if we're talking Powerball tickets.
My thing with the lottery is that I just wanted to make it clear how badly the return sucks and how much of every dollar in lottery purchases players can expect to lose.
If the primary concern is expected loss ($$$ amount), then the best way to gamble at a negative EV is to simply never gamble at a negative EV. If return percentage is considered most important, then it is fair to say that a player could get a better return percentage (game dependent) but may still lose more money, per play, per hour...whatever depending on how much has to be bet or how much is typically made in total bets.
But, yes, the expected loss of $20 in instant tickets (any game) in terms of actual cash lost is probably lower than playing your typical penny slot machine for an hour, or what have you. It's probably often less than a particular VP or Table Game depending on average bet and average amount of time played.
So, I don't disagree with any of that.
Quote: SOOPOOWe will thus have to agree to disagree. To figure in money that goes to the feds and state in any way as a ‘return to player’ to me is disingenuous. And to me, the answer to your question about the 9/6 JOB is a resounding YES. The $1 game is worse, unless you have a way with other losses to not pay additional taxes. For those winning $,$$$,$$$ or more, taxes are unavoidable.
I guess it's not even so much, "Agree to Disagree," as it is a matter of only the lottery would know. I think taxable winnings for lottery games start at $600, but in order to figure all of that out, I would have to know how much is in the prize pool of a set of Instant Tickets (for one example) and then how much of that return is over $600 and what the effective tax rate of all of that would be.
Not only does the lottery NOT list sales/prizes for every type of Instant Ticket, a few lotteries don't even separate Instant Ticket prizes from those of drawing tickets in their Annual Reports. In fact, Maine was the only state to even separate Instant Ticket Sales/Prizes by Instant Ticket denominations---no other state even did that much.
So, in order to report it the way you're suggesting would be better (and I do not totally disagree with you) would take a nearly impossible amount of research. For some states, I'd literally have to physically go to the state and look at the back of some of the Instant Tickets to figure out the overall return and return distributions.
I do take your point on the JoB example; I really do, but it would require one to look at potential tax obligations as a part of the game rather than something that occurs outside of the game. It's also the type of caveat you would then have to do for every game for which some taxable jackpot is even possible. I guess what I am trying to say is that nobody determines the House Edge of games factoring those things in. Even slot machine PAR Sheets don't pay any attention to potential tax obligations.
ADDED: It's kind of like how potential employers list what the salary for a position is, not how much you would expect to receive after taxes.
Quote: Mission146I guess it's not even so much, "Agree to Disagree," as it is a matter of only the lottery would know. I think taxable winnings for lottery games start at $600, but in order to figure all of that out, I would have to know how much is in the prize pool of a set of Instant Tickets (for one example) and then how much of that return is over $600 and what the effective tax rate of all of that would be.
Not only does the lottery NOT list sales/prizes for every type of Instant Ticket, a few lotteries don't even separate Instant Ticket prizes from those of drawing tickets in their Annual Reports. In fact, Maine was the only state to even separate Instant Ticket Sales/Prizes by Instant Ticket denominations---no other state even did that much.
So, in order to report it the way you're suggesting would be better (and I do not totally disagree with you) would take a nearly impossible amount of research. For some states, I'd literally have to physically go to the state and look at the back of some of the Instant Tickets to figure out the overall return and return distributions.
I do take your point on the JoB example; I really do, but it would require one to look at potential tax obligations as a part of the game rather than something that occurs outside of the game. It's also the type of caveat you would then have to do for every game for which some taxable jackpot is even possible. I guess what I am trying to say is that nobody determines the House Edge of games factoring those things in. Even slot machine PAR Sheets don't pay any attention to potential tax obligations.
ADDED: It's kind of like how potential employers list what the salary for a position is, not how much you would expect to receive after taxes.
I have rethunk it... and I think it is a BIG error not to include the tax effects. Heck, the POINT of your article is to show how bad the return is on lotteries. For the biggest payouts you get 1/3 less....
You say ‘outside the game’. If you are paying an ‘ante’ to play BJ somewhere, do you not factor that in since it is ‘outside the game’? I hope not!
If there is an opportunity somewhere to make a $1000 bet with an EV of $1500, but it costs $600 to get there.... etc.....
Quote: SOOPOOI have rethunk it... and I think it is a BIG error not to include the tax effects. Heck, the POINT of your article is to show how bad the return is on lotteries. For the biggest payouts you get 1/3 less....
You say ‘outside the game’. If you are paying an ‘ante’ to play BJ somewhere, do you not factor that in since it is ‘outside the game’? I hope not!
If there is an opportunity somewhere to make a $1000 bet with an EV of $1500, but it costs $600 to get there.... etc.....
Antes become a part of the game, if that is the case. You may not play the game unless you pay the ante, but with the lottery, you're only taxed if you win a taxable jackpot amount.
In fairness, I guess I could have done that for the major drawing type games. Again, trying to figure out the tax implications on Instant Tickets, for every state lottery, would be borderline impossible.
Quote: billryanHow do you put a price on a dream? If grandma drops a few bucks and spends the days before the drawing dreaming of getting her family out of poverty, is that such a bad thing?
Probably not. The expected returns of games don't have a way for me to factor, "Dream Value," into the percentage, though.
Quote: billryanHow do you put a price on a dream? If grandma drops a few bucks and spends the days before the drawing dreaming of getting her family out of poverty, is that such a bad thing?
Grandma? How about me!? I (rarely) will buy a dream for $2. Wifey will drop a $20 when Powerball or MegaMillions are high 9 figures.
Quote: SOOPOOGrandma? How about me!? I (rarely) will buy a dream for $2. Wifey will drop a $20 when Powerball or MegaMillions are high 9 figures.
You should mention the potential tax obligations to her. JK
Although, mentioning the increased probability that she ends up sharing the jackpot might be worthwhile. Also, what could she do with $400M that she couldn't do with $50M? She must dream REALLY big!
Quote: SOOPOO. I read some, but not all, of your article. Forgive me if I missed it but..... isn’t the RTP actually MUCH worse than you calculate once real life tax consequences are considered. The overwhelming number of losing tickets sold do not qualify for a tax deduction, while at least the big jackpots are taxed at both the state and federal levels.
I don't know about other states, but MegaMillions and Powerball wins in California are not subject to California state tax, presumably assuming you bought the ticket in California.
Also, the W-2G reporting minimum for a lottery is, in fact, $600, assuming that is at least 300 times the cost of the ticket.
Quote: ThatDonGuyI don't know about other states, but MegaMillions and Powerball wins in California are not subject to California state tax, presumably assuming you bought the ticket in California.
Also, the W-2G reporting minimum for a lottery is, in fact, $600, assuming that is at least 300 times the cost of the ticket.
Thanks for pointing that out, ThatDonGuy!
It would appear that a problem that I mentioned earlier is how this would work for Instant Tickets, because I would have to know the return distribution for, literally, every Instant Ticket game in the entire country in order to offer a percentage that factors in tax obligations.
It now appears that there is a problem with drawing tickets---I'd have to go look at the relevant tax laws for each individual state. Of course, that would mean that something like Powerball, "Returns," more in one state than another. I also know that Florida has no personal income tax, but I don't know if that extends to lottery winnings.
Either way, I'd still have to research applicable tax laws and percentages for each individual state to arrive at an, "Expected return," that literally no other gambling publication calculates that way---they just look at the games.
In fairness to SOOPOO, it would be more accurate, but it's also an impractical task.
Quote: Mission146Probably not. The expected returns of games don't have a way for me to factor, "Dream Value," into the percentage, though.
When the NY State lottery was fairly new and the drawings were televised, my Uncle would always give us a choice between a fifty cent lottery ticket or a dollar. I think the top prize back then was $50,000. I always took the ticket and would make plans for my winnings. My cousins would buy a bag of chips and a soda.
Quote: billryanWhen the NY State lottery was fairly new and the drawings were televised, my Uncle would always give us a choice between a fifty cent lottery ticket or a dollar. I think the top prize back then was $50,000. I always took the ticket and would make plans for my winnings. My cousins would buy a bag of chips and a soda.
Your cousins ended the day with a decent snack and you ended the day with plans that would have to find some other way to come to fruition.
I couldn't even think of what I would do with a Powerball jackpot. I can't even conceive of having that much money. The only thing I have is a certain amount in my head where I could be as conservative with the money as possible so I'd never have to do anything again.
In any case, your choice still saved your Uncle some amount of money over time.
One must eventually stop hoping and concern oneself with only those things that are real or have a concrete way of becoming real. As they say, "Hope is not a plan."
I had a roommate in the late 80s who took home $220 a week and spent $22 on the lottery. He fully expected that he would hit it at some point. It was his retirement plan. That was so wrong but he didn't want to hear about it.
For many people, a dollar could change the course of their lives.
At my age, a big win would involve more of a legacy than a huge change of life.
havent read it yet but noticed "Written by: Michael Shackleford" at the end??Quote: Mission146Greetings!
This was a massive project that I did for WizardofOdds that has just gone up if anyone wants to take a look:
https://wizardofodds.com/online-gambling/articles/the-lottery-sucks
How bad are traditional forms of lottery (Instant tickets and Drawing games) in terms of return to player? How much do the residents of your state, on average, lose to traditional lottery in a year?
These and other questions will be answered on the WizardofOdds page, "The Lottery Sucks," in which I analyzed the game returns and losses per resident in every state that has a lottery.
By the way, do you know five states do not have a lottery? Try to write down which five you think they are before reading the page and see how many you get right!
Anyway, this took forever because I researched the Annual Lottery Report for each individual state in order to determine the returns on traditional lottery games and indexed those to determine what the loss, per resident (includes children) is to traditional forms of lottery.
For Delaware, in the table on the bottom of the page, I included the Delaware Sports Lottery and also Lottery that includes revenues derived from casinos, separately, just to give people a general idea what the numbers look like for states that have those going through the lottery department. West Virginia, for example, would have one of the greatest losses per resident in the entire country if these things were included, but are below average on loss/resident for traditional lottery revenues because there are more popular (and better returning) legal ways to gamble in the state.
Anyway, feel free to have a look and see how the states compare! Please leave any comments in this thread.
NOTE: I indexed my findings to average loss per resident rather than using lottery revenue per resident because, in my opinion, listing the actual dollar amount loss is more impactful for demonstrating how terrible the lotteries are.
WORST LOTTERY GAMES: Powerball, Mega Millions
BEST RETURN % LOTTERY GAMES: $20+ Instant Tickets (Horrible Expected Loss $$$ Amount, Though)
CHEAPEST GAMES BY EXPECTED LOSS (PER PLAY): $1 Instant Tickets, $1 Keno (Sometimes, and if available), $1 Pull Tabs (If Available)
Quote: 100xOddshavent read it yet but noticed "Written by: Michael Shackleford" at the end??
I also noticed that, but I don’t really care. I’ll ask for that to be corrected if Wizard wants me to, but I’m not worried about it.
i read an article in the past 12 months that said $30M is all a person needs to do whatever s/he wants for the rest of their life. (and maybe something related to happiness)Quote: Mission146You should mention the potential tax obligations to her. JK
Although, mentioning the increased probability that she ends up sharing the jackpot might be worthwhile. Also, what could she do with $400M that she couldn't do with $50M? She must dream REALLY big!
but i cant find that link (and i spent 2hrs searching for it just for this reply)
$75000 a year I remember being mentioned for happiness or maybe being middle class or both, so it makes sense.Quote: 100xOddsi read an article in the past 12 months that said $30M is all a person needs to do whatever s/he wants for the rest of their life. (and maybe something related to happiness)
but i cant find that link (and i spent 2hrs searching for it just for this reply)
Quote: 100xOddsi read an article in the past 12 months that said $30M is all a person needs to do whatever s/he wants for the rest of their life. (and maybe something related to happiness)
but i cant find that link (and i spent 2hrs searching for it just for this reply)
I’m sorry you weren’t able to find it, but if it helps, I’ve read something similar.
that's annual salary.Quote: onenickelmiracle$75000 a year I remember being mentioned for happiness or maybe being middle class or both, so it makes sense.
the $30M i was talking about is net worth.
pretax for $75k/yr salary, post tax for $30M net worth.Quote: billryanWas that post tax or pre-tax?
cant believe my google powers failed in searching for that $30M article.
Quote: 100xOddsthat's annual salary.
the $30M i was talking about is net worth.
pretax for $75k/yr salary, post tax for $30M net worth.
cant believe my google powers failed in searching for that $30M article.
Either way, the sums are nonsense. Less than one percent of the people have a net worth approaching that. Are we to assume 99% of the people aren't happy or financially secure?
I am quite happy and financially set for life and don't have a fraction of thirty million dollars.
Quote: 100xOddsthat's annual salary.
the $30M i was talking about is net worth.
pretax for $75k/yr salary, post tax for $30M net worth.
cant believe my google powers failed in searching for that $30M article.
Oh I thought you had said 3 million. I think 3 million is enough. 30 million is CRAZY, just way too much to say there will be no worries. With want there is suffering, so I would think 30 million might put the fear of losing it quite high.
Quote: billryanEither way, the sums are nonsense. Less than one percent of the people have a net worth approaching that. Are we to assume 99% of the people aren't happy or financially secure?
I am quite happy and financially set for life and don't have a fraction of thirty million dollars.
Quote: onenickelmiracleOh I thought you had said 3 million. I think 3 million is enough. 30 million is CRAZY, just way too much to say there will be no worries. With want there is suffering, so I would think 30 million might put the fear of losing it quite high.
i dont quite remember the article i think $30M is the plateau/cap.
you can do anything you want with $30m.
anything more isnt going to make you that much better
Quote: 100xOddsi dont quite remember the article i think $30M is the plateau/cap.
you can do anything you want with $30m.
anything more isnt going to make you that much better
I can't even buy a nice new jet for $30 million.
This article sez you can ! You're Welcome. Let us know which kind you get !Quote: DRichI can't even buy a nice new jet for $30 million.
The price for a brand-new private jet ranges from $3 million to $90 million. Though secondhand jets are cheaper, they still cost millions of dollars. For perspective, a pre-owned Gulfstream G450 costs around $14.75 million on the Gulfstream website. With extras and customization, the price can soar to hundreds of millions of dollars.
Given the costs, it’s easy to see why more people opt for a private jet rental over private ownership. The purchase price of a private jet represents only a fraction of the cost of owning one. Maintenance and repair costs depend on the size of the aircraft but typically range from $500,000 to $4 million per year.
source: https://www.bankrate.com/loans/personal-loans/how-much-does-a-private-jet-cost/
Quote: JohnnyQThis article sez you can ! You're Welcome. Let us know which kind you get !
The price for a brand-new private jet ranges from $3 million to $90 million. Though secondhand jets are cheaper, they still cost millions of dollars. For perspective, a pre-owned Gulfstream G450 costs around $14.75 million on the Gulfstream website. With extras and customization, the price can soar to hundreds of millions of dollars.
Given the costs, it’s easy to see why more people opt for a private jet rental over private ownership. The purchase price of a private jet represents only a fraction of the cost of owning one. Maintenance and repair costs depend on the size of the aircraft but typically range from $500,000 to $4 million per year.
source: https://www.bankrate.com/loans/personal-loans/how-much-does-a-private-jet-cost/
G6 or die trying!
Quote: JohnnyQThis article sez you can ! You're Welcome. Let us know which kind you get !
That article mainly talks about used jets. I clearly said that I would like a nice new one. i have flown in many private jets and most of them are just minivans with wings. I need one that can hold at least 11 people and travel over 6000 miles without refueling. I would still have to stop and refuel on my way to Sydney but at least I could fly nonstop from Las Vegas to my home in St. Martin.
The Gulfstream G7 is the top of the line and costs close to $75 million. I would settle for a G6 but a new one is still close to $55 million.
back in the 80's i got invited for pitching tryouts for the Yankees.Quote: billryanLast time I tried to buy the Yankees $30 million didn't even get me a weekend in the owners box.
but i was going to hawaii with 2 beautiful twins during the tryouts period.
now im kicking myself for not going to the tryouts.
but if i canceled my 3some with the twins and didnt get the pitching job, i would be kicking myself now for not having a 3some with twins.
damned if i do, damned if i dont.
(now if i did goto tryouts and became a pitcher for the Yankees, i'd imagine i'd get another shot at a 3some with twins sometime down the line)
Quote: 100xOdds
(now if i did goto tryouts and became a pitcher for the Yankees, i'd imagine i'd get another shot at a 3some with twins sometime down the line)yes, i'm kidding
Yes, you would probably get 6 or more opportunities with Twins each year, Minnesota Twins that is.
who?Quote: DRichQuote: 100xOdds
(now if i did goto tryouts and became a pitcher for the Yankees, i'd imagine i'd get another shot at a 3some with twins sometime down the line)yes, i'm kidding
Yes, you would probably get 6 or more opportunities with Twins each year, Minnesota Twins that is.
never heard of them
:)
Quote: billryanHow do you put a price on a dream? If grandma drops a few bucks and spends the days before the drawing dreaming of getting her family out of poverty, is that such a bad thing?
I've never understood this idea that a lottery ticket is buying a dream. I can dream about what I would do with $1 million (or $1 billion) without every spending a penny on a lottery ticket.
There are ways to take a shot at life changing payouts that have better odds. Put $1 on an inside number on roulette and keep letting it ride. Seems like it should have a lower house edge on a shot at $1 million than a lottery ticket. Obviously table limits make that not much more than a theory. Then why not bets that are +EV and give the player a shot at a huge payout? In Nevada, there are some statewide progressive slot machines that often reach +$1 million jackpots that sometimes have other stuff that give them a player advantage. Or a 10- or 15-team parlay.
It is more fulfilling to dream about something that might happen (if you buy a ticket) than something that will never happen (if you don't buy a ticket). Even as "might" approaches "never!"Quote: TomGI've never understood this idea that a lottery ticket is buying a dream. I can dream about what I would do with $1 million (or $1 billion) without every spending a penny on a lottery ticket.
I agree with what you are saying about wanting to have better odds to win a life-changing amount of money. However, for me and many, if not most people, these options you listed aren't readily available. I can take a 2 minute walk from my office and obtain a lottery ticket. It's a 4 hour drive to my nearest casino; 8 hours if I want a roulette table!Quote:There are ways to take a shot at life changing payouts that have better odds. Put $1 on an inside number on roulette and keep letting it ride. Seems like it should have a lower house edge on a shot at $1 million than a lottery ticket. Obviously table limits make that not much more than a theory. Then why not bets that are +EV and give the player a shot at a huge payout? In Nevada, there are some statewide progressive slot machines that often reach +$1 million jackpots that sometimes have other stuff that give them a player advantage. Or a 10- or 15-team parlay.
If you factor in travel costs, the lottery odds will be better than the options above for a great many people.
That said, I can't remember the last time I bought a lottery ticket. I probably threw $2 into the office pool the last time the jackpot was in the high 9 figures, whenever that was. However, when I get in the office pool, it's less about the cash and more for the reason that if it does hit, I don't want to be the only one who has to go into work the next day! ;)
Quote: Joeman
That said, I can't remember the last time I bought a lottery ticket. I probably threw $2 into the office pool the last time the jackpot was in the high 9 figures, whenever that was. However, when I get in the office pool, it's less about the cash and more for the reason that if it does hit, I don't want to be the only one who has to go into work the next day! ;)
I always shake my head when people say that. Would you really not go to work the next day? I can't imagine screwing my co-workers because I was fortunate. I would definitely offer at least two weeks notice if I was quitiing. I also wouldn't tell anyone that I won other than my wife. My excuse for leaving would just be that I decided to take an early retirement and that my wife and I decided to do some travel.
It's the office pool. If it were to hit, all of my co-workers (including the owner of the company) would be rich! Actually, we would probably want to come in the next day to celebrate, but probably not too early.Quote: DRichI always shake my head when people say that. Would you really not go to work the next day? I can't imagine screwing my co-workers because I was fortunate.
But to your point, if I was to come into a windfall that made my current salary insignificant, I would still stick around for two weeks or whatever seems appropriate to hand off my projects and get a replacement up to speed.
I'm with you on this one. If I won on a ticket that I bought for myself, I would tell my wife first, then call an estate lawyer to set up trusts or whatever rich people do to protect their wealth and privacy.Quote:I also wouldn't tell anyone that I won other than my wife. My excuse for leaving would just be that I decided to take an early retirement and that my wife and I decided to do some travel.
But I want to be president...and hear them say, "I can't believe he said that".Quote: TomGI've never understood this idea that a lottery ticket is buying a dream. I can dream about what I would do with $1 million (or $1 billion) without every spending a penny on a lottery ticket.
There are ways to take a shot at life changing payouts that have better odds. Put $1 on an inside number on roulette and keep letting it ride. Seems like it should have a lower house edge on a shot at $1 million than a lottery ticket. Obviously table limits make that not much more than a theory. Then why not bets that are +EV and give the player a shot at a huge payout? In Nevada, there are some statewide progressive slot machines that often reach +$1 million jackpots that sometimes have other stuff that give them a player advantage. Or a 10- or 15-team parlay.
https://wizardofvegas.com/article/the-day-the-lottery-lost/
Quote: Mission146Here's a short one (No, really, it is short!) about a state lottery getting massacred on a game:
https://wizardofvegas.com/article/the-day-the-lottery-lost/
Here's a long one that lists what I have done so far and what's coming up.
I also have a WoO Page that will be coming out on the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic on State Lotteries for 2020. The first page will be a study that is about 60% finished because not all of the data (Lottery Annual Reports) has come out yet for calendar 2020 (if same as fiscal year) or FY20, for every state.
Anyway, I summarized my findings of that study in this article, so please read this article and then you can decide if you want to look at the full study to see how individual states did.
Finally, I answered some, "Frequently Asked Questions." Which is to say questions that I have been asked, but using the word, "Frequently," makes it sound like everyone is just dying to know what I'm doing.
and the link to that article is here:Quote: Mission146Here's a long one that lists what I have done so far and what's coming up.
I also have a WoO Page that will be coming out on the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic on State Lotteries for 2020. The first page will be a study that is about 60% finished because not all of the data (Lottery Annual Reports) has come out yet for calendar 2020 (if same as fiscal year) or FY20, for every state.
Anyway, I summarized my findings of that study in this article, so please read this article and then you can decide if you want to look at the full study to see how individual states did.
Finally, I answered some, "Frequently Asked Questions." Which is to say questions that I have been asked, but using the word, "Frequently," makes it sound like everyone is just dying to know what I'm doing.
https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/lottery-corollary/
:)
