Quote:GialmereApart from craps, why do you think dice games do so poorly in US casinos? Is there a dice game you've seen that you wish would become a Vegas standard?

Not that I am a Wizard, but I may have a suggestion. Dice games are my favourite because they are very easy to analyze. Every high school student should be able to do it. The best dice game I have ever seen is called Koobix. It's offered by some Italian online casinos. There are great many bets available and it's a good home work for highschoolers to calculate their house edge and find the winner. Overall the RTP ranges from 95.00% to 98.56%, thus beating Sic Bo hands down and simplifying Pass Line in Craps. For example they have 3.9x payout on 10 or 11 on rolling 3 dice. It really begs to go to 4x as a promotion on some days. Even better fun would be to enhance payout on one bet every week to over 99% but only listing payouts in help. That's my Baccaratkiller!

Quote:MattUKNot that I am a Wizard, but I may have a suggestion. Dice games are my favourite because they are very easy to analyze. Every high school student should be able to do it. The best dice game I have ever seen is called Koobix. It's offered by some Italian online casinos. There are great many bets available and it's a good home work for highschoolers to calculate their house edge and find the winner. Overall the RTP ranges from 95.00% to 98.56%, thus beating Sic Bo hands down and simplifying Pass Line in Craps. For example they have 3.9x payout on 10 or 11 on rolling 3 dice. It really begs to go to 4x as a promotion on some days. Even better fun would be to enhance payout on one bet every week to over 99% but only listing payouts in help. That's my Baccaratkiller!

I had a look for this game and all I could find was this video, evidently in Italian.

Can I trouble you to give me the rules in English, including the pays?

Thank you.

p.s. Questions closed for today's show.

Fortunately Koobix is available on their website in English: https://tinyurl.com/yb8lml46

I had used your page on https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/dice/2/ to check the return on some of the bets. It proved to be extremely useful.

The best bet is on the sum of 6 dice to be 20 to 22. The return is (4221+4332+4221)*3.6/46656 = 45986.4/46656 = 2129/2160 = 0.985648148. I find it much nicer and adventurous than only 0.02% better Pass Line in Craps (through they don't have Odds).

Let me add that the game is reap for enhanced payouts during promotions or as a mistery weekly enhancement, as they can use virtually any payout they want (they choose to use up to 1 decimal point, eg. 3.6x above).

Quote:MattUKHappy to oblige! Koobix is a game created by Tuko Productions, a game developer from Italy. http://www.tukopro.com/en/about-2/ For any business, grab the nearest Italian and ask him to call on (+39) 0828 1776468. I have found them by learning the rules of Trente et Quarante which they also have, albeit without the insurance.

Fortunately Koobix is available on their website in English: https://tinyurl.com/yb8lml46

Thanks. Here is a demo game.

As background, this is an Italian dice game with a whole host of bets. I linked to a demo game in the previous post. There are also some very badly-worded rules here.

I'll start this by asking about the three of a kind? Wins pay 2.6 for 1. The rules say it wins if there are three of the same dice face. However, what about 4, 5, or 6 of a kind? What about two three of a kinds? I assume these all win.

Assuming this is allowed, I get winning combinations of 6*COMBIN(6,3)*5^3+6*COMBIN(6,4)*5^2+6-COMBIN(6,2)*COMBIN(6,3) = 16956.

This would lead to a probability of 16956/6^6 = 0.363425926. Multiply that by 2.6 and you get an RTP of 94.49%.

However, the game help file say it is 95.49%. This implies 180 more winning combinations than I get.

What we clearly need is a third opinion. Can any of the big brains of the forum be that third opinion?

Here are some bets I did work out until I got stuck on the three of a kind.

Bet | Pays | Combinations | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

Odd | 1.95 | 23328 | 0.500000 | 0.975000 |

Even | 1.95 | 23328 | 0.500000 | 0.975000 |

Total of 6 to 19 | 2.7 | 16941 | 0.363104 | 0.980382 |

Total of 20 to 22 | 3.6 | 12774 | 0.273791 | 0.985648 |

Total of 23 to 36 | 2.7 | 16941 | 0.363104 | 0.980382 |

– Tris: three dice with the same face value

– Consecutive Tris: three dice with the same face value in adjacent positions

– Real Tris: three dice with the same face value and the same color.

– Consecutive real Tris: three dice with the same face value and the same color in adjacent positions

PS: I am sorry Wiz, but you seem to use wrong payout for Odd and Even sum of 6 dice! They use 1.9 for 95% return as they clearly show. They only use payouts up to 1 decimal point to avoid rounding 1 eurocent.

Quote:Wizard...However, the game help file say it is 95.49%. This implies 180 more winning combinations than I get...

6 of a kind | 6 | 6 |

5 of a kind | 6x5x6 | 180 |

4 of a kind | 6x5x5x15 | 2250 |

3 of a kind - twice | 6x5/2 x 20 | 300 |

3 of a kind - once | 6 x (5x5x5-5) x 20 | 14400 |

Total = 17136

Payout for all perms = 17136 * 2.6 = 44553.6

RTP = 95.494%

Bet | Pays | Combinations | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

Odd | 1.9 | 23328 | 0.500000 | 0.950000 |

Even | 1.9 | 23328 | 0.500000 | 0.950000 |

Total of 6 to 19 | 2.7 | 16941 | 0.363104 | 0.980382 |

Total of 20 to 22 | 3.6 | 12774 | 0.273791 | 0.985648 |

Total of 23 to 36 | 2.7 | 16941 | 0.363104 | 0.980382 |

Three of a kind | 2.6 | 17136 | 0.367284 | 0.954938 |

Regarding the bets where color matters, let me first quote the rules, "The game is about the launch of 6 randomly chosen dice in 5 different colors:red, green, yellow, blue, white. The white die is a wildcard and replaces any other color. There are 6 dice for each colors (red, yellow,green, blue) and 1 white dice."

Where shall I start? Are the colors chosen with or without replacement? Does the wild nature of the white die apply to color only? For the royal three of a kind, would this win:

Blue 3

Blue 4

White 5

Red 1

Red 5

Yellow 6

RAINBOW bet

The bet is to predict the total number of dice of a certain color extracted (remember that the white die is a wildcard).

At the top of the main window the player chooses the desired number. The selection in this area is mutually exclusive.

At the bottom of the page the player chooses the desired color. The selection in this area is mutually exclusive.

Dice Return RTP

0 6.30 96.52

1 2.10 92.89

2 2.20 95.03

3 5.30 94.63

4 30.30 96.24

5 444.00 96.27

6 24300.00 96.05

COMBO bet

The bet is to predict some characteristics of one of the six dice.

The player chooses the desired die in the left column. The selection in this area is mutually exclusive.

In the main window he chooses the feature to bet on:

– Value: the face value of the die is the one chosen.

– Color: the chosen die will be of the selected color. The bet on the white color is winning only if the selected die is white; the bet on the other colors is winning if the selected die is of the chosen color or white.

– Even / Odd: : the face value of the die is odd or even.

– Low / High: the face value of the die is low (1, 2, 3) or high (4, 5, 6).

Even / Odd, Low / High, Value selections are mutually exclusive.

Color selection is not binding and can be single or combined with one of the others.

All the following bets are therefore possible (as an example):

– The dice 3 is odd.

– The dice 3 is red.

– The dice 3 is green and it value is 6.

– The dice 3 is yellow and its value is low.

Bet Return RTP

One of the colors 3.40 95.20

White 23.80 95.20

Value 5.80 96.67

Value + Color 20.40 95.20

Value + White 142.80 95.20

Even / Odd 1.90 95.00

Low / High 1.90 95.00

E/O + Color 6.80 95.20

L/H + Color 6.80 95.20

L/H + White 47.60 95.20

E/O + White 47.60 95.20

PS: Ups, spaces are gone. :-( Sorry guys. I tried.

Dice | Pays | Combos | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

0 | 6.3 | 27132 | 0.153201581 | 0.96516996 |

1 | 2.1 | 78336 | 0.442326369 | 0.928885375 |

2 | 2.2 | 76500 | 0.431959345 | 0.950310559 |

3 | 5.3 | 31620 | 0.178543196 | 0.946278938 |

4 | 30.3 | 5625 | 0.031761717 | 0.962380011 |

5 | 444 | 384 | 0.002168267 | 0.962710333 |

6 | 24300 | 7 | 3.95257E-05 | 0.960474308 |

dice range payout combinations probability return

3 3-9

3 10-11

3 12-18

4 4-12

4 13-15

4 16-24

5 5-16

5 17-18

5 19-30

6 6-19

6 20-22

6 23-36

That's how I would present it anyway, with 2 instead of 8 tables.

You also missed "Consecutive Tris" with 10x payout.

Quote:MattUKYou missed some of the bets.

Thank you. I just added them. Please have another look.

I have never seen a game with so many different bets before.

They are also specialists in very large payouts. In Sic Bo the best return is 35/36 paying even money. Here you can have the same bet with the following payouts: 7560, 2160, 1512, 1260, 810, 504, 360, 315, 216, 210, 180, 126, 108, 70, 63, 60, 36, 35, 22.5, 21, 18, 14, 10, 9, 8.4.

I can imagine this game in a live casino, with 6 dice drawn from 25 in a spinning cage just like balls in a lottery. Evolution Gaming, are you there?

I think all bets are a multiple of 10c, and that's why all odds are a multiple of 0.1 and they don't use 1.95 for even money bets. (In Netherlands a few years ago they rounded to nearest 5c, by pure luck I won a jackpot which ended in 3c and had to involve the manager when they rounded it down.)Quote:MattUK...With 2 decimal points and rounding to the nearest eurocent >99% can be achieved with any bet...

Personally I find the huge number of possible bets a nightmare although can understand it would give the regular player options they prefer. The downside is getting players over the "that looks too complicated to play" hurdle.

Quote:charliepatrickI think all bets are a multiple of 10c, and that's why all odds are a multiple of 0.1 and they don't use 1.95 for even money bets.

Yes, they want to avoid rounding. Not sure why because additional 0.05 payout gives even more flexibility and can boost the return greatly, eg. from 95% to 97.5% for Odds/Even or, better still, to 99.93% RTP on the best bet. Another thing is that on demo the bet range on almost all bets is 0.1-10 euro which seems ridiculously low. Maybe some Italian could check that on https://www.merkur-win.it/casino/Slot-machine/koobix.html

Quote:charliepatrickPersonally I find the huge number of possible bets a nightmare although can understand it would give the regular player options they prefer. The downside is getting players over the "that looks too complicated to play" hurdle.

The table is comparable to the Craps table which is a not that distant cousin. There are just several parts where you can place different bets. Please note that the best bet, 20-22 total on 6 dice, is much easier to understand than the convoluted Pass Line in Craps - it's just a single bet with 27.38% chance. I applaud this simplicity.

Quote:MattUKHuston, we have a problem. "Totals" bets on the bottom of the straight numbers are wrong. Also, there is Triple Sure probability with a very generous 570% return. I really think it's better to make two additional tables for Odd/Even from 3 to 6 dice and 12 range bets.

Thanks for the correction. I am on the fence about making separate tables for those bets.

Quote:Rainbow bets require the player to choose a color and a number from 0 to 6. The player wins if the total number of dice matching the color chosen is equal exactly to the number chosen. For example, if the player chooses 5 green, then the player will win if five of the dice are green. Remember that the white die is wild for purposes of color; it will count as a color that favors the player.

Also all of your “ Combinations are based out of a total of 63 = 216.” are missing either a ^ or the sup tag.

Quote:mipletAlso all of your “ Combinations are based out of a total of 63 = 216.” are missing either a ^ or the sup tag.

It's ok. Not 63 but 6 to the power of 3. Same with 3 other below.

Quote:MattUKYou still have it wrong with the sandwiched bets on the bottom of total of 3 and 5. You have them copypasted from other totals. Which proves my point because you would spot this mistake on a separate table.

I am not seeing what you're talking about. Can you give me one specific bet that is in error. Please make sure you refresh the page.

Quote:mipletYour Rainbow bet section needs some improvement. The number chosen must match exactly. White will always benefit the player and be a match or not a match. Here is my suggested rewording.

Thanks, I threw in your words.

Quote:Also all of your “ Combinations are based out of a total of 63 = 216.” are missing either a ^ or the sup tag.

I am not seeing this 63 anywhere. Can you copy and paste a full sentence where you see it.

It might just be my phone. The sup tag is in the html, but isn’t rendering. I have an iPhone 7 and checked in Safari, Chrome, and Edge.Quote:WizardI am not seeing this 63 anywhere. Can you copy and paste a full sentence where you see it.

Quote:WizardI am not seeing what you're talking about. Can you give me one specific bet that is in error. Please make sure you refresh the page.

Values are correct. Maybe that's why you didn't see it. It's the description. You have incorrect range in the bottom three lines of totals of 3 and 5. Totals of 6-36 on totals of 3 dice. That's why I am even more confident about making a table with 12 range bets, 3 lines per dice. Actually, it can be simplified even further because Low and High are always the same, just on the other side of the curve. So we have only 8 range bets, not 12 and likewise only 4 Odd/Even (which differ only by the number of combinations). 12 lines in total in one table does the job.

Sum bets:

3 dice - below 10 or above 11

3 dice - 10 or 11

3 dice - Odd or Even

4 dice - below 13 or above 15

4 dice - 13 to 15

4 dice - Odd or Even

5 dice - below 17 or above 18

5 dice - 17 or 18

5 dice - Odd or Even

6 dice - below 20 or above 22

6 dice - 20 to 22

6 dice - Odd or Even

PS: I would also add explanation that player chooses number of dice from 3 to 6 by clicking at the desired height on the stack of them on the left edge. Available bets adjust automatically.

Quote:GialmereDoes anyone know what "koobix" means?

Well "cubi" in Italian translates to English "cubes"

Quote:WizardI have never seen a game with so many different bets before.

I agree. I could see this working on the casino floor in a similar way "bubble craps" works. Can't imagine this as a live table game.

Quote:IndyJeffreyI agree. I could see this working on the casino floor in a similar way "bubble craps" works. Can't imagine this as a live table game.

It's not going to work with chips, obviously, but you're right - it may work with touchscreens for each player or, better still, in online casino where unlimited number of players will place a bet and winnings will be paid electronically. That's why I suggested it may be of interest for Evolution Gaming. Some table games are hard to emulate online (think of Craps). Koobix has the opposite problem - it started as online game but begs to be played with a revolving cage like a lottery.

Quote:MattUKValues are correct. Maybe that's why you didn't see it. It's the description. You have incorrect range in the bottom three lines of totals of 3 and 5. Totals of 6-36 on totals of 3 dice. That's why I am even more confident about making a table with 12 range bets, 3 lines per dice. Actually, it can be simplified even further because Low and High are always the same, just on the other side of the curve. So we have only 8 range bets, not 12 and likewise only 4 Odd/Even (which differ only by the number of combinations). 12 lines in total in one table does the job.

Thank you and sorry it took so long. I was focused only on the math and didn't pay attention to the description of the bet in the left column. Hopefully it is right now. I also moved the "range" bets to separate tables, per your suggestion.