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MaxPen
MaxPen
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May 5th, 2019 at 3:11:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm already working on a vulturing strategy for the pick-3 game and Suncoast rules.

I find that the player should play if the total abandoned multipliers is 7 or more. Keep in mind that what seems like no multiplier is really a multiplier of 1x.

At first this surprised me, because the player needs combined multipliers of 8.779732 to break even the NEXT game. So why play if it's only a total of 7? I figure that's because while the next play is moderately negative EV, it has a chance to win a lot of multipliers the next game. If it doesn't, then walk away. So, it's taking a gamble -- loss the next game for a chance of greater wins after it.

Does this make any sense to the experienced Ultimate X video poker vultures?



No, because there is no next hand multiplier possibility when vulturing UX.
Wizard
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May 5th, 2019 at 3:14:37 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

No, because there is no next hand multiplier possibility when vulturing UX.



Good point.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
FleaStiff
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May 5th, 2019 at 5:10:55 PM permalink
There were a great many threads and articles about vulturing. Some were fictionalized and some I certainly hope were fiction. I had the impression that these vultures were low lifes on the prowl who descended on a machine prior to a previous player making an orderly departure and fighting off other low lifes.

It seems that these keno cards are designed to retain that 'previous player's earned multiplier' even if its been hours, so there would be no unseemly pouncing by cruising vultures.

This would be a more acceptable situation.
AxelWolf
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May 5th, 2019 at 10:27:52 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

There were a great many threads and articles about vulturing. Some were fictionalized and some I certainly hope were fiction. I had the impression that these vultures were low lifes on the prowl who descended on a machine prior to a previous player making an orderly departure and fighting off other low lifes.

It seems that these keno cards are designed to retain that 'previous player's earned multiplier' even if its been hours, so there would be no unseemly pouncing by cruising vultures.

This would be a more acceptable situation.

Unless I'm misunderstanding "retain that 'previous player's earned multiplier' even if its been hours" for the most part they work the same. I haven't seen them and didnt read The Wizards keno UX page but I think you have to bet the same amount of coins each time to pick them off, meaning, you cant abandon them with 10 coins and someone come along and pick them off with less coins.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
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May 5th, 2019 at 10:36:53 PM permalink
Keno UX works like Bonus Streak UX, Spin Poker UX, and UX wheel poker. You have to make a bet on the multiplier feature. There is no option to short-coin in. Okay, you can short-coin it in the VP variants, but you don't get the multiplier. On keno, you don't even have an option to short coin in and not play with a multiplier.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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May 6th, 2019 at 9:59:48 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Keno UX works like Bonus Streak UX, Spin Poker UX, and UX wheel poker. You have to make a bet on the multiplier feature. There is no option to short-coin in. Okay, you can short-coin it in the VP variants, but you don't get the multiplier. On keno, you don't even have an option to short coin in and not play with a multiplier.



Yes IGT wised up on the bet 5 or bet 10 thing in the spin off games.

In one of the other forums I post at, one member got a 20X quad on UX Spin Poker this weekend, that was a pretty sight.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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May 6th, 2019 at 12:48:14 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

No, because there is no next hand multiplier possibility when vulturing UX.



So it's more like UX Bonus Streak. Gotta see a pretty big number there to make it worth max betting and playing into the streak.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Mission146
Mission146
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May 6th, 2019 at 1:51:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



At first this surprised me, because the player needs combined multipliers of 8.779732 to break even the NEXT game. So why play if it's only a total of 7? I figure that's because while the next play is moderately negative EV, it has a chance to win a lot of multipliers the next game. If it doesn't, then walk away. So, it's taking a gamble -- loss the next game for a chance of greater wins after it.

Does this make any sense to the experienced Ultimate X video poker vultures?



Yes and no.

It makes sense in the same way that what we will call the base game, (No multipliers, not vulturing,) is such that some of the value you get on the current play is in the fact that you can get multipliers on subsequent hands. This does not cease to be mathematically true for a person who is vulturing, (just that the potential value of multipliers carried forward does not change) so mathematically, the vulture just wants total current multipliers such that the next play (and subsequent) become better than breakeven propositions, overall.

On the other hand and as a practical matter, my answer is somewhat no because on UX type games in which the vulture must make Max bets, I want to have an advantage just on Base Pays + Known Multipliers. Bonus Streak complicates that a little, but it's a pretty simple determination with UX Spin, UX Keno and anything else. I just figure anything above that vis-a-vis future multipliers is gravy.

Personally, for this Four-Card Keno game, I would therefore be looking for multipliers totaling 9x, and I consider a hand with no multipliers as 1x, the same way you do. On any other game, I would generally want an average multiplier of anything over 2x for me to play it. Bonus Streak would be an average KNOWN multiplier of anything over 2x for the hands that I know I would be playing. Again, it's pretty simple to figure out when looking at a particular configuration, but the situations differ because of the unique distribution of multipliers in that game.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Wizard
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May 6th, 2019 at 3:17:15 PM permalink
Thanks for the continued replies.

One thing I'd like to make clear is that changing the denomination, credits bet, or number of picks will change the multiplier. The player can make a different number of picks on each card. So, I would suggest cycling through the number of picks (3 to 8) on each card and selecting the choice with the highest multiplier.

Still hoping to get a confirmation on the math. My usual guy who loves Markov chain games like this is on vacation. I bet Mustang Sally would love this one, I miss her participation.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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May 6th, 2019 at 4:48:11 PM permalink
At this risk of ruining another play, I will be discussing vulturing Ultimate X Keno on a future episode of Gambling with the Edge, likely to air in late May. I also plan to discuss vulturing Golden Egypt.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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