## Poll

 Yes 4 votes (25%) Maybe 2 votes (12.5%) No 4 votes (25%) I don't understand the rules. 1 vote (6.25%) What were you doing in the Venetian, Wiz? 2 votes (12.5%) Tia Carrere 1 vote (6.25%) I love a good witch hunt. No votes (0%) I hate sitting in the middle seat. No votes (0%) I still say the answer is 1/6. No votes (0%) Bigot. 2 votes (12.5%)

16 members have voted

Wizard
• Posts: 26842
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
June 17th, 2016 at 9:46:36 AM permalink
I saw a new table game at the Venetian yesterday (6/16/16) called Lucky 8. Here are the basic rules:

1. Game is played with two modified decks of aces to eights only plus one joker per deck.
2. Aces count as one point. Jokers count as eight points.
3. Player and dealer each get eight cards.
4. The object is to form as many sets of eight points as possible. A set can consist of any number of cards. In the event of a tie on the number of sets, the one with the more unused cards shall win.
5. After the player sees his cards he must fold or raise, as in Three Card Poker.
6. Dealer must have a at least one natural 8 or a joker to qualify, otherwise only the Ante will win.
7. If the dealer qualifies the one with more sets wins. If there is a tie, then the one with more remaining cards shall win.

Here are scans of the rack card. Click on either image for a larger version.

Here is the pay table on the Lucky 8 side bet:

8 pays 1000 to 1
7 pays 500 to 1
6 pays 250 to 1
5 pays 40 to 1
4 pays 5 to 1
3 pays 2 to 1
2 pays 1 to 1

I haven't even touched an analysis and didn't have time to play it.

The question for the poll is would you play Lucky 8?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizardofnothing
• Posts: 3493
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
June 17th, 2016 at 10:17:57 AM permalink
I would definitely play this as long as the their is no computer telling the dealer how to set their hands....
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
DiscreteMaths2
• Posts: 241
Joined: May 4, 2016
June 17th, 2016 at 10:23:47 AM permalink
deleted.
Last edited by: DiscreteMaths2 on Jun 17, 2016
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
gamerfreak
• Posts: 3540
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
June 17th, 2016 at 10:48:14 AM permalink
Are all natural 8's and sets of 8's equal when comparing the player's outcome to the dealer's?
TheoHuxtable
• Posts: 61
Joined: Feb 24, 2016
June 17th, 2016 at 11:44:19 AM permalink
I played this game at last at G2E last year. It took a few hands to grasp but once we did it was good fun. Pai Gow Pokers may enjoy the slightly more complex puzzle to solve when setting hands. Curious to see how the rate of pushes compares to PGP.

I can't remember the exact rules at G2E but it seems like they made some slight modifications between now and then. I'll give it a shot if I find myself at Venetian.
Views are my own...
onalinehorse
• Posts: 75
Joined: May 25, 2016
June 17th, 2016 at 2:07:06 PM permalink
" SEE DEALER FOR ADDITIONAL RULES " REALLY?
Avincow
• Posts: 395
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
June 17th, 2016 at 2:34:07 PM permalink
Is the deck shuffled after every round?

I don't get the side bet. Is it based on the number of 8's only in your particular hand?
miplet
• Posts: 2128
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
June 17th, 2016 at 3:12:33 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

Is the deck shuffled after every round?

I don't get the side bet. Is it based on the number of 8's only in your particular hand?

Yes shuffled every round and just natural 8s and jokers.

A small correction for Wiz: it's the fewest discards win incase of a tie.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
billryan
• Posts: 16496
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
June 17th, 2016 at 4:10:49 PM permalink
Played a few hands, here are the results.

1) player 4 8s, 1 side card
Dealer 3 8s 3 side cards

2)player 3 8s, 3 side.
Dealer 38s, 3 side.

3)player 2 8s, 4 side
Dealer 4 8s, 1 side

4)player 4 8s, 3 side
Dealer 4 8s, 3 side.

Best hand had 2 8s and a joker.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Avincow
• Posts: 395
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
June 17th, 2016 at 5:21:58 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Played a few hands, here are the results.

1) player 4 8s, 1 side card
Dealer 3 8s 3 side cards

2)player 3 8s, 3 side.
Dealer 38s, 3 side.

3)player 2 8s, 4 side
Dealer 4 8s, 1 side

4)player 4 8s, 3 side
Dealer 4 8s, 3 side.

Best hand had 2 8s and a joker.

How often is the dealer qualifying? Like half the time? And how does the dealer determine the sets ?
billryan
• Posts: 16496
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
June 17th, 2016 at 6:44:40 PM permalink
I set them-8,joker,ace-7,deuce-6,3-5,6-2. Any leftovers I put aside. I imagine that's correct.
I'd guess the house edge is pretty high, like High Flush or other carnival games.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
charliepatrick
• Posts: 2997
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
June 17th, 2016 at 7:09:33 PM permalink
Sounds an interesting game - could you clarify the rules if I've misunderstood them.

My assumption is it uses two decks of cards which have Ace,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 plus two Jokers (which for mathematical purposes might as well be 8's). I thought you then made as many "Eights" where each "Eight" is either one Eight (or a Joker) or a combination of cards totalling 8. I had started with the assumption, given a choice, that you use the most cards and leave the least cards unused - e.g. with AAAAAA22 you'd use six Aces and a 2.

First Look - if dealer qualified with any "Eight".
I misread the rules but if the dealer had qualified with any one 8 hand (i.e. at least one combination of cards that form an eight rather than at least one 8-vaued card). This meant the dealer nearly always qualified and the House Edge came from losing ties.

My figures don't yet add up for the players only hand, but if we assume the hands are independent then the likely cutoff is near playing two "Eights" with three cards left over and fold two "Eights" with four cards; this gives a minuscule .07% House Edge. This is why I knew I had misunderstood the game.

Second look - dealer needs at least one of the 8s or Joker to qualify (i.e. about 75%).
Surprisingly the cutoff where you play is exactly the same (fold 27%), although it's not so bad to play bad hands rather than folding. With the dealer qualifying so often this swings the game into the player's favour, however the tie rule grabs back so much it leaves a fairly large House Edge.
Avincow
• Posts: 395
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
June 17th, 2016 at 8:07:36 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I set them-8,joker,ace-7,deuce-6,3-5,6-2. Any leftovers I put aside. I imagine that's correct.
I'd guess the house edge is pretty high, like High Flush or other carnival games.

Yes, but how does the dealer do it?
billryan
• Posts: 16496
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
June 17th, 2016 at 8:15:18 PM permalink
Why do you think he would set them differently?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
98Clubs
• Posts: 1728
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
June 18th, 2016 at 2:57:30 AM permalink
Just my WAG here, but the Dealer needs a House Way to set the hands. There has to be a way to minimize the "remainders", so that the Dealer wins more ties.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Wizard
• Posts: 26842
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
July 7th, 2016 at 8:05:46 PM permalink
My new page on Lucky 8 is ready to preview. Please click the link for all the details. As always, I welcome all comments, questions, and especially corrections.

Quote: Avincow

How often is the dealer qualifying? Like half the time? And how does the dealer determine the sets ?

You can see in the return table for the side bet the player will get zero natural 8's 24.73% of the time. The odds are obviously the same for the dealer. So, the dealer will qualify the rest of the time, or 75.27%.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
odiousgambit