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Venthus
Venthus
Joined: Dec 10, 2012
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August 26th, 2013 at 9:14:57 AM permalink
I was spectating Fortune PGP a few days back while a friend was playing and couldn't get a firm grasp of how banking works.

From what I can gather based on what I observed and WoO, you have to speak up when you have the option, put down an amount of money, then you're playing your hand against the dealer's (like normal), plus your hand against everybody else's hand.

So a few questions regarding specifics:
What is the amount that you have to put down? My friend was playing 10$ and I saw the dealer ask for and put 75$ on the little banker block when the (only) other guy at the table banked. I would've thought it'd be something closer to the sum of what the rest of the table is playing.
How does the commission work out? Does it go to the banker or the house, or isn't paid at all?
Are the players who are not the ones banking playing against the house at all?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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August 26th, 2013 at 9:33:18 AM permalink
The banking player needs to put out enough money to cover everyone else, plus what he's wagering against the house. So the other player, who was banking, would need to cover his own bet against the house, plus his bet against the other players. I would guess this means that the other guy at the table was betting significantly more than your friend was.

Everybody pays commission to the house. If the non-banking players win, their commission goes to the house. The banking player pays a commission on his net win as well.

The house banks the bonus bets of all players, but if a player is banking then the other players aren't playing directly against the house's hand at all.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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August 26th, 2013 at 9:50:55 AM permalink
If you're at a table with lots of players, then yes you have to cover all the other bets. Sometimes they bet more out of spite, and other times they only want to win the house's money so won't play - if they do the latter then it's probably etiquette for you to do the same.
Venthus
Venthus
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August 26th, 2013 at 9:59:32 AM permalink
Ahh. I rather assumed that the banker-vs-house wager would still be in the standard bet spot, while the against-the-other-players bit is on the block. Must've missed that.

How does banking reduce the edge then? It seems like nothing is different, other than you're effectively playing more hands at once and taking money from a different source.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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August 26th, 2013 at 10:07:50 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus


How does banking reduce the edge then? It seems like nothing is different, other than you're effectively playing more hands at once and taking money from a different source.



The banker wins ties. So the player's xxx33/AK beats the dealer's xxx22/AK when the player banks, and pushes when the dealer banks.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 26th, 2013 at 10:32:59 AM permalink
Quote: Venthus

How does banking reduce the edge then?



As rdw said, the banker wins on copies. Also, the 5% commission is applied to the NET win.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 26th, 2013 at 1:06:11 PM permalink
Everywhere I've played, the player is only allowed to bank for up to the amount of his/her previous bet, though if I'm playing two hands (usually), some casinos will allow me to add them into one total amount. Some places will even let you keep playing your second hand while you bank the first (for its single value in this case), though the second hand must be set the house way and you don't see it until you've set the dealer hand. Bonus/envy bonus-mad people like me will do this, and it also acts as a hedge (costs you 5% to bet two bonus hands, essentially, and keeps the envy bonus in play if you're the only one at the table). You win ties against both the house AND the other players.

So you have a +EV overall, but that's reduced to a slightly -EV by having to still pay the commission (not that I know the EV numbers). Local table etiquette will dictate how banking is handled by the other players, but another player raising their bet sharply is seen as an aggressive move to get you to change your mind about banking, playing the ante at table minimum is usually acceptable but a few tables expect a non-banker to sit out, and if the casino looks the other way, as they did in AC and Biloxi last I was there, the players can agree to even money, where after the hand is dead and the cards collected, the bet is informally refunded back to the person who lost it, whether banker or player. The person who won the money, by refunding , pays the 5% (because the winner already paid it to the house; sometimes the loser will pay the commish to the winner to get their refund), but it is a courtesy hedge to allow a player to bank and the others to play for the bonus (paid by the house if won) with less risk for all of them.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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