Charitable Gaming: Keno
Somebody suggested that we include Keno in our mix because the house edge is so good. I could see selling keno tickets to players at our various other games. In fact, I could see setting up a dedicated "Keno lounge" in our tent or perhaps even its own tent (after all, we already have a bingo tent!).
I am not that familiar with the game having played it only once, many years ago. My fear is not with paying players on the small wins but rather, being exposed to huge payouts should somebody get huge lucky. Does anybody know how other charitable games handle this issue?
It is simply a matter of putting a cap on the top end? Is it shaving all payout amounts (which we do on craps and roulette)?
Any input is appreciated.
The reason I would say NO KENO is that it detracts from your Bingo market and unless done well it will make enemies. You could only run a live Keno game, if you ran keno runners around the place ...they would have to know what they were doing and get bets in on time which would mean a constant din over the public address system.
I just came back from a church festival where all the games(BJ, wheels) were all complete ripoffs and almost nobody was playing. Depending on the local competition, I would recommend being as generous as possible or you'll fail.
Quote: Riva
I am not that familiar with the game having played it only once, many years ago. My fear is not with paying players on the small wins but rather, being exposed to huge payouts should somebody get huge lucky. Does anybody know how other charitable games handle this issue?
It is simply a matter of putting a cap on the top end? Is it shaving all payout amounts (which we do on craps and roulette)?
Any input is appreciated.
1.) The first thing I want to say is that I agree with FleaStiff because I believe that Keno draws largely the same crowd, for this sort of event, that Bingo would. Therefore, you'll offer Keno at the expense of losing some of your Bingo crowd to it. In the meantime, you might have a few additional people for the Keno game, but certainly everyone that wanted to play Bingo played Bingo already. Therefore, I think you're just going to end up nearly doubling your resources for very few, if any, additional players.
2.) That said, of you want to reduce your risk of getting killed by one big win, then you'll need to offer a bottom-heavy payout structure, but that is going to eliminate the greater part of the allure of Keno, which is the potential for a quick huge win. That's largely why people play Keno.
3.) Fortunately, the Wizard already has a tool that will enable you to design a paytable to meet your specific purposes:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/calculator/
This might be a paytable I would use for such an event, for Pick-10, just as an example:
Hit 0-3: 0
Hit 4: 2
Hit 5: 5
Hit 6: 15
Hit 7: 50
Hit 8: 75
Hit 9: 100
Hit 10: 200
Return: 0.815315265156152
Hit Rate: Slightly over 21%
House Edge: About 18.5%
If you wanted a lower hit rate, around 11%:
Hit 0: 1
Hit 1-4: 0
Hit 5: 5
Hit 6: 25
Hit 7: 100
Hit 8: 150
Hit 9: 200
Hit 10: 250
Return: 0.772593399620535
House Edge: About 22.7%
If you wanted an even lower hit rate, slightly under 6.5%:
Hit 0-4: 0
Hit 5: 10
Hit 6: 20
Hit 7: 50
Hit 8: 100
Hit 9: 150
Hit 10: 200
Return: 0.838904398745847
House Edge: About 16.1%
Conclusion
If Max wins between 200-250 still intimidate your event, then you simply don't want to offer Keno.
Quote: camaplYou could also include prizes other than money for certain wins - kind of a way of "raffling" prizes, especially things that have been donated. Just be sure there is a decent chance for someone to win the more attractive prizes before the event is over!
Just do a straight raffle or auction if they are not won within an hour left.
Quote: Mission1461.) The first thing I want to say is that I agree with FleaStiff because I believe that Keno draws largely the same crowd, for this sort of event, that Bingo would. Therefore, you'll offer Keno at the expense of losing some of your Bingo crowd to it. In the meantime, you might have a few additional people for the Keno game, but certainly everyone that wanted to play Bingo played Bingo already. Therefore, I think you're just going to end up nearly doubling your resources for very few, if any, additional players.
2.) That said, of you want to reduce your risk of getting killed by one big win, then you'll need to offer a bottom-heavy payout structure, but that is going to eliminate the greater part of the allure of Keno, which is the potential for a quick huge win. That's largely why people play Keno.
3.) Fortunately, the Wizard already has a tool that will enable you to design a paytable to meet your specific purposes:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/calculator/
This might be a paytable I would use for such an event, for Pick-10, just as an example:
Hit 0-3: 0
Hit 4: 2
Hit 5: 5
Hit 6: 15
Hit 7: 50
Hit 8: 75
Hit 9: 100
Hit 10: 200
Return: 0.815315265156152
Hit Rate: Slightly over 21%
House Edge: About 18.5%
If you wanted a lower hit rate, around 11%:
Hit 0: 1
Hit 1-4: 0
Hit 5: 5
Hit 6: 25
Hit 7: 100
Hit 8: 150
Hit 9: 200
Hit 10: 250
Return: 0.772593399620535
House Edge: About 22.7%
If you wanted an even lower hit rate, slightly under 6.5%:
Hit 0-4: 0
Hit 5: 10
Hit 6: 20
Hit 7: 50
Hit 8: 100
Hit 9: 150
Hit 10: 200
Return: 0.838904398745847
House Edge: About 16.1%
Conclusion
If Max wins between 200-250 still intimidate your event, then you simply don't want to offer Keno.
While we have Bingo at our 4-day event, it is in a totally different tent form our gambling tent. And, the people who play Bingo are very old and very young. It is not the same crowd that gambles in our "Vegas Tent".
We are not afraid of a $500 payout. What we are afraid of is coughing up 20 or 30 $500 payouts over the 4-day event. Someone sent me an email suggesting $1 spots with a max purchase of 10 spots.
My other fear is, am I robbing making money at the expense of the other games? On most nights of our event, the tent is jammed with people. Many can not get on a game, it's that crowded. People become annoyed because they just paid $5 to get in to the event and cant find a game. FYI we own 20 blackjack, 10 holdem, two 14' craps, two 20' roulette (total of 4 layouts), big six money wheel. Sometimes seats do not open up until 11 or 12.
My thought is rope off a section of the tent and make it a dedicated Keno area. Or perhaps, set up a stand alone Keno Tent. I want to provide people who cant find a game some place to gamble until a chair in one of the other games opens up and/or for people who simply want to play Keno.
Quote: Riva[
While we have Bingo at our 4-day event, it is in a totally different tent form our gambling tent. And, the people who play Bingo are very old and very young. It is not the same crowd that gambles in our "Vegas Tent".
That's true because your, "Vegas Tent," does not offer any similar games to Bingo! Keno is a substantially similar game to Bingo, the only real difference is that you don't play against other people.
Quote:We are not afraid of a $500 payout. What we are afraid of is coughing up 20 or 30 $500 payouts over the 4-day event. Someone sent me an email suggesting $1 spots with a max purchase of 10 spots.
With that tool to which I linked you, it's very easy, just put in the paytable you want for each number of balls and tell it to calculate. Everything is a risk, of course, but generally speaking, if you had forty (or so) of those huge payouts over four days, the probability is you had the losing play to cover those forty big wins.
I don't know what you mean by spots, you just have cards with a stated paytable for a certain number of Picks, and you keep the House Edge about the same for every number of picks. Just charge $0.50 or $1.00 per card, make it a flat price to keep things simple, they can pick as many numbers as they wish and picking more than ten voids the card. Picking less than the appropriate amount of numbers is also a void.
Quote:My other fear is, am I robbing making money at the expense of the other games? On most nights of our event, the tent is jammed with people. Many can not get on a game, it's that crowded. People become annoyed because they just paid $5 to get in to the event and cant find a game. FYI we own 20 blackjack, 10 holdem, two 14' craps, two 20' roulette (total of 4 layouts), big six money wheel. Sometimes seats do not open up until 11 or 12.
Yes, you are, but it sounds like the overflow may be sufficient.
Some of your Bingo people will play Keno, I don't care if the two tents are on complete opposite sides of the event. Some of your Bingo people are playing Bingo because it is the closest thing to Keno.
If you have overflow from your other Table Games such that some people can't get a seat, then sure, you can probably go ahead and offer the Keno even at the expense of Bingo. You definitely want as many people as possible gambling. People could play Keno while they wait for a seat to play something else, and they are playing a higher HE game than the very game for which they are waiting.
But, yeah, you don't want people who want to gamble not able to gamble, everyone loses, so you definitely need to find something else to offer, or increase your number of Tables for games you already have.
Quote:My thought is rope off a section of the tent and make it a dedicated Keno area. Or perhaps, set up a stand alone Keno Tent. I want to provide people who cant find a game some place to gamble until a chair in one of the other games opens up and/or for people who simply want to play Keno.
I would have to have more specific numbers, or to have at least witnessed one of these events to perform a cost/benefit analysis of offering a Keno tent. You will lose some Bingo players to Keno, is Bingo ever overcrowded? Can everyone who wants to play Bingo play Bingo as it stands now? I would say 15-25% of your Bingo crowd moves over to Keno, so that's a consideration if Bingo is never full. If Bingo is often full/overcrowded, then that may be desirable.
If you do a dedicated Keno tent, put it right next to the Vegas tent. In the event of table overcrowding at an individual's game of choice, inform them that they can be on a waiting list for an available seat if they go to the Keno tent and play Keno, then someone will go get them when a seat is available. This will better manage the overflow from your other table games, and keep traffic flow well-organized.
That may also be a way to get some of your lower HE action over to the higher HE Keno, because they will want the first available seat. The majority of your Poker/Craps/BJ players would otherwise not play Keno, so that could get them there while they wait for a seat. Some of your Roulette people (straight number bettors) would probably be at least minimally inclined to play Keno anyway, because they like that lottery style payout, same with Big 6.
