Fastest money makers... for the house?
Last year, Blackjack brought in a paltry sum. The game was slow, and some dealer incompetence lead to those results.
There were two "dice tables" (Beat the Dealer) that were largely unmanned for a good portion of the evening. Once someone jumped in to run the game, it started bringing in money hand over fist.
The Question:
What games are best suited for short term (6 hour) charity events to make the most money?
Beat the Dealer is lightning fast, and has a good HE.
Any others come to mind?
Ultimate Texas Hold 'em-- Many people are familiar with hold 'em and the players will play with poor strategy. A good dealer will be needed for this game though.
My wife and I went to a Black Tie charity event at the Mar a Lago in Palm Beach, Florida a couple years ago; huge swanky event with numerous Rolls-Royce, Bentleys, Ferraris, etc. We felt so out of place with our relatively new Audi A6. Your entry ticket cost $1,000 each and included with your Five Star Restaurant quality meal, endless wine; you received about $300 in gaming chips to play with. An additional $50 got you $100 in play chips.
They had Blackjack tables, 3 Card Poker Tables, Slot Machines, Craps, etc. The busiest tables was by far the Craps table; there was a line of people at least 2 rows deep on each table; People were going crazy; trying to buy in and re-buy for $100's of $$$ at the Craps table. Prizes were given out for the people with the most chips at the end of the night but you received ZERO money back for your chips.
It was lots of fun, you would swear you were at Caesers or Bellagio on the Vegas strip! I got into a bit of a tiff with an older lady (80s) standing next to me on the Craps table in the hook; she had lots of pearls on with a beautiful fur coat. I got paid $45 for a $5 Hard 6 and she tried to grab my chips; I told her it was mine and we started arguing...she finally relented and gave me the chips. When I returned from the restroom later in the evening, my wife told me the older lady told her in her New York accent..."Your husband is just like me, I LOVE me some Craps".
My pick for a short term charity event to make the most money is definitely Craps.
Red Dog
Is it wise to slaughter the sheep so quickly? Enjoying the games for a few hours, and giving some folks a chance to actually win, results in longer term profits (like coming back for next year's event). If entertainment, and repeat business aren't as important as max short term profit, have a lottery drawing. You minimize the overhead, and lock in the profit with a pari-mutual prize structure.
Quote: DweenLast year, Blackjack brought in a paltry sum. The game was slow, and some dealer incompetence lead to those results.
Yes. Dealer incompetence (or even theft) is a problem at these events.
Just curious- could you provide the rules of your charity blackjack game?
I agree that Craps has a lot of potential, and I personally, would enjoy it the most, but it is also one of the most expensive games to run.Quote: CrapsForever...My pick for a short term charity event to make the most money is definitely Craps.
Two knowledgeable dealers (per table), a table, chips, and equipment are expensive. The dealers are the key. If you can get good folks for cheap, you can play the game on a folding 8 ft' table, but if you don't have folks who can figure the correct payouts and run the game quickly, forget it.
Quote: MakingBookJust curious- could you provide the rules of your charity blackjack game?
1. Minimum Bet is $1.00; Maximum Bet is $10.00. (NOTE: I plan on increasing that this year to $2 - $25.)
2. Blackjack pays 3-2, on first two cards of hand (not split hands)
3. Dealer wins ties, except Blackjack vs Blackjack is a push (INFO: This is the big one, "charity rules"... we take ties.)
4. Dealer stands on all 17s
5. Insurance is not offered
6. Player may not surrender
7. Split pairs into a maximum of 4 hands
8. Split hands are fully playable, even aces. No Blackjack payouts on split hands
9. Double down on any two cards, including on split hands; Double for less allowed (INFO: Rules 8 & 9 "make up" for rule 3)
Thanks! I was once asked to set rules for a similar charity event.
Yes- dealer wins ties is the big one.
Edit: I'm assuming Craps and Blackjack are included automatically.
Good Luck
P.S.--I did this once years ago and I think we made very little at Blackjack. Same deal people get prizes for most chips. But no actually money given out.
One note about Roulette (or Sic Bo), we would want to avoid anything that could have a jackpot-type payout. A $10 bet at 35 to 1 could wipe out an entire night's profits. I realize we could limit inside betting to $1, or have a payout cap per spin.
The only other idea is Showdown Poker, which is popular at the summer picnics. Maximum of 10 players each get 5 cards, high hand wins 8 for 1 (HE 20% per hand).
Roulette should give you enough of an edge, but is a slow game.
If you want to do Blackjack, Craps, Roulette (or any other even money based game) make sure that there are only two (or, at most, three) bet levels. You can either bet x or y, or x, y or z, you don't want to get beat by some charity high-roller slapping down $25 on the Hard Eight, or what have you. You need to cut down variance as much as possible.
If you do Blackjack, Naturals pay Even Money, the game is H17, No Splitting, Double 10-11 Only, No Surrender, combined with automatically flat-betting the players (or close to flat-betting) that should be enough of an HE unless the House gets really unlucky.
For Craps, use Place or Place to Lose Odds to pay Odds taken/laid on Line/Come Bets. Go with single Odds. Have a Field Bet, but if anyone is foolish enough to play it, Neither the 2/12 pay double, alternatively, you could have a Nine lose on a Field Bet.
The Center bets are very favorable to the House, but a few Max Bet wins in the center can eviscerate the House for the day, so whatever the Table Minimum is, flat-bet those center bets at that minimum, if you insist on having them at all. Make a CO 12/2 lose regardless of which side you are playing.
Quote: kenarmanCasino War. Everyone knows how to play, easy to deal, huge house edge, fast.
Casino war as played in the casino isn't that huge of a house edge in the casino. But for charity, I would assume the house should win all ties.
Given 6 decks:
Ties occur: 23/311 = 0.073955...which would be the same as the house edge.
The charity blackjack rules have a higher edge than this.
I wouldn't recommend full-blown Sic Bo, Craps, or Roulette as these games require better dealers/croupiers. Roulette (double zero, obv) would be okay if you have separate colored cheques for each player, and maybe reduced odds on inside bets? One of the few times I played Sic Bo in Vegas, they had to go to video review over my $12 winning wager because some drunk Asian thought they made my bet. The dealer had no clue who made the bet because it was 1 of 20+ made.
If you could get a big six wheel, that would also be a pretty good one.
You could also make a game, where the the goal is to try to get a "Yahtzee".
Players get 3 rolls to match as many dice as possible:
With 3 dice, a possible paytable may look like this:
Event...Probability...Payout...Return
Yahtzee (3 of a kind - 1st Roll)...0.027777...3...0.0833333333
Yahtzee (3 of a kind- 2nd/3rd Roll)...0.1899005487...3...0.5697016461
All Other...0.7823216735...-1...-0.7823216735
Total...1...N/A...-0.1292866941
(Note: I have no bonus for a Yahtzee on the first roll, but I split the probabilities up if you would want to offer a bonus for it.)
Or with 5 Dice:
Yahtzee (1st roll)...0.0007716...25...0.0192901235
Yahtzee (2nd or 3rd roll)...0.0452573951...7...0.3168017654
4 of a Kind...0.244765...1...0.244765
3 of a Kind...0.452402...-1...-0.452402
Pair...0.256011...-1...-0.256011
No Pair...0.000794...-1...-0.000794
Total...1...N/A...-0.12835
Unfortunately with the 5 dice game, unless you want a ~big payout for Yahtzees, 4 of a kind might need a 3 to 2 or 6 to 5 like payout.
On the three dice game, math for probability of a Yahtzee can be found here:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AlIYwp2oG8JvAbBOUXDWcigjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20111022145137AADDiUN
For the five dice game, math can be found here:
http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2006-2007/Probability/Yahtzeesol.htm
The only reason I chose not to use such strict rules on Blackjack is because the house already takes ties. That's a huge house advantage, around 8% if I recall. The other liberal rules I sprinkled in cut into that so little that I figure it doesn't matter too terribly.Quote: Mission146If you do Blackjack, Naturals pay Even Money, the game is H17, No Splitting, Double 10-11 Only, No Surrender, combined with automatically flat-betting the players (or close to flat-betting) that should be enough of an HE unless the House gets really unlucky.
Casino War might not be bad. I've not seen in dealt in person, so I'll have to see if there are any videos I could watch to learn the subtle nuances. Should be easy to get a dealer for, though.
Yahtzee (3-dice or 5-dice) sounds interesting, and I love a new game idea. I just wonder if multiple people playing would work, or if people would understand the concept.
That's the only trouble with introducing a new game at an event like this... people are used to the norm. And the volunteer dealers can be hit or miss in experience levels.
apparently some/all were all card counters.
Quote: Mission146If you can, just deal THE somehow. It may go somewhat slowly, but with the rake, the House can't lose since it doesn't even have anyone to pay.
I missed this at first because "THE" doesn't register as "Texas Hold'em" to me.
If it would be legal in Dween's state, a full cash game probably guarantees $100 per table hour minimum (10% rake up to $5 or $6 max per hand). In most states, however, it's probably illegal. If it was legal though, I definitely would consider having a table, especially if the bets on table games are fairly small.
Quote: DweenThe only reason I chose not to use such strict rules on Blackjack is because the house already takes ties. That's a huge house advantage, around 8% if I recall. The other liberal rules I sprinkled in cut into that so little that I figure it doesn't matter too terribly.
That's probably true, but I would also make sure there's not too much of a difference between the Min/Max Bet just to be really safe.
Quote:Casino War might not be bad. I've not seen in dealt in person, so I'll have to see if there are any videos I could watch to learn the subtle nuances. Should be easy to get a dealer for, though.
I'm not entirely sure there would be any, "Subtle nuances." That game is about as straight-forward as it gets!
Quote:Yahtzee (3-dice or 5-dice) sounds interesting, and I love a new game idea. I just wonder if multiple people playing would work, or if people would understand the concept.
That's the only trouble with introducing a new game at an event like this... people are used to the norm. And the volunteer dealers can be hit or miss in experience levels.
Exactly.
Quote: tringlomaneI missed this at first because "THE" doesn't register as "Texas Hold'em" to me.
If it would be legal in Dween's state, a full cash game probably guarantees $100 per table hour minimum (10% rake up to $5 or $6 max per hand). In most states, however, it's probably illegal. If it was legal though, I definitely would consider having a table, especially if the bets on table games are fairly small.
I don't believe that Dween mentioned what State this charity event would be in, but if he would be comfortable stating such, or PMing it to me, pursuant to the PM Confidentiality Rule, then I would be happy to research the matter for him. IANAL, but charity gambling laws usually aren't tough to find.
I have mentioned it before, and have no qualms letting it be known I am in Kentucky. I have been keen on adhering to the charitable gaming laws, and after a few deadlines were missed on filings at one point (which got us slapped with a fine), some of the administrators are tightening the reins on following the rules.Quote: Mission146I don't believe that Dween mentioned what State this charity event would be in, but if he would be comfortable stating such, or PMing it to me, pursuant to the PM Confidentiality Rule, then I would be happy to research the matter for him. IANAL, but charity gambling laws usually aren't tough to find.
I've seen other places run a cash game, where they would rake from the pot for the opportunity to play there. I can't recall the laws on it, and Mission, if you're so inclined, if you could see what the law says about cash games, I'd appreciate any info you could dig up.
I'm going to do a little research on Casino War (as it seems "a little" is all that's needed for such a simple game), and see if we could have a table for it.
Quote: DweenI have mentioned it before, and have no qualms letting it be known I am in Kentucky. I have been keen on adhering to the charitable gaming laws, and after a few deadlines were missed on filings at one point (which got us slapped with a fine), some of the administrators are tightening the reins on following the rules.
I will assume compliance with all other laws (and there are a s***load of them in Kentucky) and state the following:
Pursuant to:
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Charitable-Gaming/Kentucky/
238.505(2) Excludes the following games:
Quote:"Charitable gaming " means bingo, charity game tickets, raffles, and charity fundraising events conducted for fundraising purposes by charitable organizations licensed and regulated under the provisions of this chapter. Charitable gaming shall not include slot machines, electronic video gaming devices, wagering on live sporting events, or simulcast broadcasts of horse races;
Further:
Pursuant to 238.505(17), the following are Special Limited Charitable Games:
Quote:"Special limited charitable game " means roulette; blackjack; poker; keno; money wheel; baccarat; pusher-type games; any dice game where the player competes against the house; and any other game of chance as identified, defined, and approved by administrative regulation of the office;
Pursuant to 820 KAR 1:055 Section 4 (Link below):
Quote:Section 4. Equipment Used for Events. (1) Poker tables, blackjack tables, prize wheels, and chips, scrip, or imitation money shall not be considered charitable gaming supplies, and equipment and may be purchased from ordinary sources of supply. The organization shall not pay for poker tables, blackjack tables, prize wheels or chips, scrip, or imitation money from the charitable gaming account.
I don't imagine that you would necessaily have to use the real deal with respect to poker tables, though. They may not play with cash! You must use chips or imitation dollars!
The event records that you must keep start on Page 181 of the Word Document, which is accessible through the link that I put at the bottom of this post.
Quote:I've seen other places run a cash game, where they would rake from the pot for the opportunity to play there. I can't recall the laws on it, and Mission, if you're so inclined, if you could see what the law says about cash games, I'd appreciate any info you could dig up.
It seems that you can do that, but you must use chips or imitation money.
Quote:I'm going to do a little research on Casino War (as it seems "a little" is all that's needed for such a simple game), and see if we could have a table for it.
Casino War is not listed as an agency approved game (Page 209-Word Document) and all games must be approved by the Regulatory Agency (238.505 (17) above link). However, you may seek approval to offer Casino War by checking, "Other," or you may call and see if the game has already been approved and just not specifically listed on the application.
http://www.kentuckycharitablegaming.org/
We use imitation money at the event, and I have been trying for YEARS to get them to go to chips. They finally started using chips at the summer picnic for Blackjack only, so it's a step in the right direction. My guess is that paper funny money is once again going to be used at this upcoming event.
The bad things about the paper money: They have to get it custom printed for each event. Every year. It is serialized and dated, so no one can sneak in bills from previous events. And as gamblers here know, it is a hassle for the players to handle, and terribly inconvenient for dealers when taking in, or paying out. I've tried to explain they could actually increase revenue by using chips, due to the speed factor.
I have emailed the charitable gaming board before about certain concerns I've had in the past (Fun fact: It is not illegal for volunteer dealers to drink alcohol before, or even during, their shift.), and they have been prompt and friendly in supplying answers. I will ask them about Casino War as a permissible game.
Chips would be much better, and because they do not all have to come from a distributor, they also do not all have to be the same. Red/White/Blue are all pretty standard colors for chip sets, so you could basically have everyone (volunteers, that is) bring in chip sets and it doesn't matter whether or not they all match exactly.
If not, then you can get 5,000 white, 5,000 red and 5,000 blue of these El Cheapos for $600:
http://www.pokerchipswest.com/5-gram-poker-chips.html
If you need less than that, as you can see, it's $2.00 per 50 chips which is a pretty terrific price.
Having to custom print the money for each event is unnecessarily costly. I would just use the chips, and rather than customize the chips, have each cashier and dealer have, "Chips/Cash In-Chips Out," sheets. The player would go the cashier, and say he gets $50 in chips, the cashier would have to fill out the sheet stating that the player bought the $50 in chips, then stamp and sign it. The player then would take the sheet and chips to the dealer who would quickly count the chips and verify it matches the amount on the sheet. The dealer would complete a similar sheet when the player was done, or you could have someone go around from table to table just for that purpose if you didn't want to slow down the game.
Also I remember going to a charity event and they used three as the bar roll for Don't bets
Quote: Mission146No problem, gave me something to do!
Chips would be much better, and because they do not all have to come from a distributor, they also do not all have to be the same. Red/White/Blue are all pretty standard colors for chip sets, so you could basically have everyone (volunteers, that is) bring in chip sets and it doesn't matter whether or not they all match exactly.
If not, then you can get 5,000 white, 5,000 red and 5,000 blue of these El Cheapos for $600:
http://www.pokerchipswest.com/5-gram-poker-chips.html
If you need less than that, as you can see, it's $2.00 per 50 chips which is a pretty terrific price.
Having to custom print the money for each event is unnecessarily costly. I would just use the chips, and rather than customize the chips, have each cashier and dealer have, "Chips/Cash In-Chips Out," sheets. The player would go the cashier, and say he gets $50 in chips, the cashier would have to fill out the sheet stating that the player bought the $50 in chips, then stamp and sign it. The player then would take the sheet and chips to the dealer who would quickly count the chips and verify it matches the amount on the sheet. The dealer would complete a similar sheet when the player was done, or you could have someone go around from table to table just for that purpose if you didn't want to slow down the game.
But then a devious player could buy in, and, while playing, sneak chips that he brought from home into the game. Sort of like the opposite of rat-holing.
Quote: charliepatrickI see "any dice game" is allowed. Have you heard of Crown and Anchor, it uses three dice so is like Si Bo but you can only bet on the symbols (Crown, Anchor, Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs). So the payouts are something like 1 symbol:1-1 2 symbols:2-1 3 symbols:10-1 with a nice house edge, fairly fast and easy for anyone to deal.
Also I remember going to a charity event and they used three as the bar roll for Don't bets
Sic Bo has these type of bets on the numbers. For charity sake though, best to lower the 3-number payout to 3:1 like they usually do in Vegas (7.87% house edge).
https://wizardofodds.com/games/sic-bo/
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceBut then a devious player could buy in, and, while playing, sneak chips that he brought from home into the game. Sort of like the opposite of rat-holing.
That's the thing about most charity events with something like this, with no eye in the sky, you kind of take your chances. Of course, if you keep a running tally of the rake and the chips coming and going from the table, then that would make it more difficult. It would also be quite a risk for a poker player to take given that other players would be somewhat likely to spot it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesSomething like this happened to the company that organized the poker room I dealt at. At one of their other locations, a group of people tooks some chips home and counterfeited thousands of dollars worth. When it got figured out, it was to late.
This sort of thing is not that uncommon at home games. When it comes time to pay up at the end of the night, there are sometimes more chips out than the amount that was paid to buy in. It's hard to say if someone made a mistake selling chips, or if someone decided to sneak some chips in. Either way, the host is generally on the hook for it.
Quote: Mission146That's the thing about most charity events with something like this, with no eye in the sky, you kind of take your chances. Of course, if you keep a running tally of the rake and the chips coming and going from the table, then that would make it more difficult. It would also be quite a risk for a poker player to take given that other players would be somewhat likely to spot it.
My point is that, the nice thing about printing your own "funny money" with serial numbers prevents this. Depending on the stakes involved, it may or may not be worthwhile.
It may be worthwhile to label the chips somehow, then, at least they would be reuseable. You'd have to find something that looked fairly dissimilar to anything else while simultaneously being difficult to duplicate, but easy to recognize duplicates.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe place I dealt at used stickers on the chips. How ingenious!
How about the colored dot price tag stickers available from office supply stores? They're under one cent each and come in a variety of colors. It'd also be simple to lay them out and spray them with clear UV-reactive ink (looks like a can costs from 5-30$ depending on the brand). Or, run stamps over them with specific text or something.
At another local church, they use chips specifically printed with the denominations. They are fairly generic, but not something easily picked up at a local store. Yet another church did what someone else mentioned: Added a simple sticker to the center of the chips that has the school logo on it.
I could use the forum's help on this one: Where do you recommend getting a set of custom chips? They can be simple plastic, but need to be unique. I will try to find out how much the custom printing of play money costs, and compare it to a one-time purchase price of chips. Then again, I do know our church ordered some chips, but they don't use them at this event.
One other note: This event is actually centered around a dice-based horse race, where 4 large dice are rolled, and wooden hobby horses are "ridden" along a track. People are able to wager on the horses 1 through 6, even exacta bets. The paper money has a better feel for "racetrack" type betting... that would be a major reason they would not want to drop paper money.
About a year ago I went to a beer festival and they used sheets of paper that they had printed themselves - it has the advantage that you can custom it for the one event but someone has to cut the A4 sheets!
When we ran charity events the chips were turned into raffle tickets at the end of the evening (under old UK rules players were allowed one buy in rather than "gamble"), so technically there would be little loss from duplicates, and we used the normal poker chips readily available.
So I may make up signage and ask the event admins if they would like me to introduce the game at the this year's event.Quote: Charitable Gaming CommissionYour inquiry about “Casino Wars” to referred to me. Upon consultation with our Compliance Branch Manager, we have determined that since “Casino Wars” is a comparative card game played against a dealer, it can be considered a variation of blackjack, and can be played under a Special Limited Charity Fundraising Event license.
Should I keep the rules as they are in the casino? Not that many variations could be used...
Quote: Dween
Should I keep the rules as they are in the casino? Not that many variations could be used...
I would make it even simpler, improve the House Edge (for the House, that is) by not offering the Bonus bet and also get rid of the option to Surrender because that also slows the game down. If the Player and the Dealer tie, then the Player simply bets again and you go to War. I guess you could make Surrender mandatory on a tie, for a higher HE, but then it doesn't really play like War anymore...
(i) if the colour matches then you get a stand-off otherwise lose
(ii) if you have a "Spade" (say) then you win, else you lose (that way there isn't a stand-off).
(c) Charles Patrick 2013!!!
