zippyboy
zippyboy
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
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February 29th, 2012 at 5:50:49 PM permalink
The Wiz has always endorsed Bodog/Bovada. I'm sure he'll have insight into this debacle when he sees this thread.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
Scotty71
Scotty71
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February 29th, 2012 at 5:57:48 PM permalink
I think this all has a lot more to do with the fact that they are violating banking/patriot act laws - which have forced them into the appearance (at the very least) of money laundering.

These guys and everyone else gets shut down and then "properly" licensed and taxed online casinos set up shop. Corporations like MGM, Harrahs etc wont stand to pay taxes and licensing fees if there are companies operating in plain view not following the rules. Bodog and the like got plenty of years at the trough and now its time to pay up.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." ó E.E. Cummings
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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February 29th, 2012 at 6:03:14 PM permalink
Hello all. I attended the World Game Protection conference here in Vegas on Mon-Wed this week. The first I heard about this was Tuesday night. I'm still absorbing everything. To make matters worse, my computer had some kind of fatal motherboard error so I'm working off of my kids' computer until I get up and running again.

At this time I have no comment, but just know that I'm on top of it and hope to have something to say about it soon.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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February 29th, 2012 at 6:35:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Hello all. I attended the World Game Protection conference here in Vegas on Mon-Wed this week. .



Is it true the speakers wear funny hats and clown noses
to distract you from the fact that this years conference
is just a watered down version of last years conference?
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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February 29th, 2012 at 7:21:41 PM permalink
I have written extensive articles about the indictment. I write for the online poker industry. There are a few points that are important here:

1) Nobody has been arrested at this time. That article's title is wrong. They later clarify it is only arrest warrants.

2) It is believed Ayre is in Antigua or Philippines. Wherever he is, he is safe from extradition. If what Bodog did is legal in the country he is residing in, it will not satisfy any extradition treaty in place. I am sure he planned well ahead for this day.

3) While there were several forfeitures signed off on, it does not appear any money was actually seized. The Bodog.com domain appears to be the only asset that was actually taken. The reason the feds can take that .com is because it is assigned by Verisign, a U.S. company that has an agreement with the government.

4) Bodog stopped using the .com in May 2011. That is because PokerStars/Full Tilt Poker/Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet all lost their .coms on Black Friday. Many U.S. facing gaming sites moved to .eu or .ag domains. Bodog forwarded the .com to Bodog.eu, which is out of the reach of the U.S. American players play on the brand Bovada.lv, a Latvian domain also out of the reach of the feds.

5) Bovada is operated on the Mohawk reservation, far out of the reach of the U.S.

6) This investigation involved the Anne Arundel County Police who have been a part of many online gambling busts. They get kickbacks from the feds for doing it.

7) This is the same U.S. Attorney's office that indicted Bookmaker.com and friends in May 2011. All but one of those indicted companies still operates today with a different domain name.

This is really nothing to worry about IMO. If anything, Ayre seems like the kind of guy that might actually fight this although he has taken some shots at Jay Cohen for doing the same thing. Cohen was founder of WSEX and lost at his trial for essentially the same crime about ten years ago.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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February 29th, 2012 at 8:03:30 PM permalink
Quote: Pokeraddict

I have written extensive articles about the indictment. I write for the online poker industry. There are a few points that are important here:
.



How come Ayre was indicted for crimes committed
up till 2012, when he sold the brand in 2007? The CEO
of MMGG said in 2009 that Ayre was not involved with
the company. If MMGG ran Bodog and owned the brand,
how did they escape indictment? How did the gov't
make bets with Bodog.com and get paid by Bodog.com
in Jan if the site has been dormant since last May?

What about the serious money laundering charges,
they're the real issue here. This is a serious crime and
you didn't address it. The .com seizing is nothing
compared to the money laundering.

I appreciate what you wrote, but there's nothing new
there. Every single point you made is easily found
in the articles written since Monday on this subject.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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February 29th, 2012 at 8:17:48 PM permalink
Quote: Pokeraddict

I have written extensive articles about the indictment. I write for the online poker industry.



It's not clear what the effect on Bovada will be. Any insight?
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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February 29th, 2012 at 8:36:42 PM permalink
Quote:

How come Ayre was indicted for crimes committed
up till 2012



The indictment stated that the Bodog investigation ran until January 6, 2012. I do not believe that it specifically states that Calvin Ayre committed the crime all the way up until that day, just the company. The indictment is very vague though. The two charges do not have dates of the alleged crimes, just the actual crimes.

Quote:

If MMGG ran Bodog and owned the brand,
how did they escape indictment?



MMGG appears to be closely related to the actual government of the Mohawk reservation. Indicting them would be pointless. Maybe they think they whole thing is a smokescreen and that Ayre never dropped his interest in the company. Ayre has rubbed a lot in the government's face, I have to think he had a bullseye.

Quote:

What about the serious money laundering charges,
they're the real issue here. This is a serious crime and
you didn't address it. The .com seizing is nothing
compared to the money laundering.



I was just addressing how this affected the Bodog/Bovada business. I don't think it does at all. The indictment was related to two companies owned by Kenneth Wienski called JBL Services Inc and ZipPayments Inc and $100 million in transactions processed. Wienski got indicted back in 2008 but his case disappeared from the dockets. A good assumption is that he rolled but maybe the case got sealed some other way. During my research I could not find any resolution in the case beyond asset forfeitures. This case seemed to have disappeared.

Quote:

I appreciate what you wrote, but there's nothing new
there. Every single point you made is easily found
in the articles written since Monday on this subject.



Many of which I wrote and based on reading the indictment and the seizure notice. Sorry that you did not like me clearing up a lot of misinformation in this thread. One article linked from this thread says Ayre and others were arrested, others thought Bodog was seized. Another person said "bodog.com has not been a $play site since long before Black Friday". All of those are wrong.

Also, none of these articles were live on Monday. The domain order was signed on Monday, but was executed well after business hours. The indictments were released on Tuesday morning.
JimMorrison
JimMorrison
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February 29th, 2012 at 8:38:35 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob


What about the serious money laundering charges,
they're the real issue here. This is a serious crime and
you didn't address it.



IMO money laundering is not a serious crime. It's a bullshit crime set up to catch people the government believes are doing something illegal but they can't catch any other way.
EvenBob: "Look America, I have a tiny wee-wee, can anybody help me?"
boymimbo
boymimbo
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February 29th, 2012 at 8:40:30 PM permalink
Quote: Pokeraddict

5) Bovada is operated on the Mohawk reservation, far out of the reach of the U.S.



It's time for the US to dust off those Canadian invasion plans. It's the 200 year anniversary of the War of 1812, after all, and the Kahnawake reserve's only 35 miles from the US border. Just get a drone to bomb a few of those buildings and call it an "accident". Problem solved.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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